Liberty Dollar Seizure Warrant Disclosed

JohnLocke.org ^

[Smokin' Joe]

The days of creating your own currency has been of for many, many decades. These characters should be tried and the fake currency confiscated.

Yikes! I'd better go zero out my Walmart card I got as a bonus on the last job, then! (and here I was saving it for Christmas shopping).

[Loud Mime]

Darn right! Bartering should be illegal too.

Since we’re off the gold standard which currency IS fake?

[Iwo Jima]

There is much in this 38 page affidavit that I don't understand. There were numerous FBI undercover agents in Liberty's employ. Those unidentified persons gave vague information that the affiant concluded meant that Liberty did not have bullion on hand to back 100% of the certificates issued. I could not follow how he can to this conclusion.

But my question is: exactly what did they promise? That the certificates represented that there was X amount of gold or silver in the warehouse? Or did it just say that it was redeemable in gold which does not necessarily mean that there is always 100% on hand at any given time, which is the same principle every bank follows.

The affidavit also cites a publication to customers advising that there has been no audits for several months because the audit firm quit without notice although under contract (wonder if the FBI put pressure on them to quit). By the time they got the records from the old firm and retained a new firm, several months had elapsed. The new firm had to go back over several months to create record and then proceed forward. When all the work was completed, everything was fine, according to the new auditors.

Read the affidavit. They have been gunning for these people for a long time.

[bjs1779]

Are the paper certificates they issue actually backed by the gold they claim them to be?

They seem to be.

Liberty Dollar Audits

[mysterio]

A $20 coin was only backed by about $15 in silver.

Rather than a 20 dollar piece of paper backed by nothing?

[bjs1779]

Interesting. I wonder how many times the Federal Reserve was audited?

[Moonman62]

In the case of the Liberty Dollar they are basically selling silver for much more than the market price of the silver. I love my paper backed by nothing. I can convert it into silver anytime I want, without a markup by con artists. And that paper seemed to be good enough for NotHaus. He had a bank account full of them, fraudulently obtained from suckers.

[bjs1779]

A $20 coin was only backed by about $15 in silver.

The government ran the same scam for years until the coins were worth more melted down. Then they gave you something cheaper.

[mysterio]

Anybody can sell me anything for more than it's worth.

I am curious to find out why they prosecuted him for fraud rather than for coining money, which is a right specifically granted to the Congress in the Constitution.

[from occupied ga]

It's backed by everything you can buy at the store.

These were backed by the silver in them or are you saying that the stuff at the store is inherently worth the full price you pay. These are actually different than gift cards in that the value of the silver doesn't expire after 6 months like most gift cards.

[bjs1779]

I am curious to find out why they prosecuted him for fraud rather than for coining money, which is a right specifically granted to the Congress in the Constitution.

There is a press statement by the Feds floating around someplace here. The jest of it was because he was trying to undermine the U.S. currency and the IRS.

[mysterio]

undermine the U.S. currency

If they start prosecuting that crime, we're going to have a lot of lawmakers in jail pretty quickly.

[bjs1779]

If they start prosecuting that crime, we're going to have a lot of lawmakers in jail pretty quickly.

Right. But what can we do to India for starters?

India: Tourist Sites Refuse the Dollar (falling dollar)

[Iwo Jima]

Read that affidavit. It is a sight to behold.

[supercat]

Are you equating a merchant’s gift certificates with the merchant creating a currency?

This person was selling, from what I understand, (1) one-ounce pieces of stamped silver, and (2) what were effectively gift-certificates redeemable for one-ounce pieces of stamped silver. If anyone would choose to accept one of the certificates in exchange for something else, how is that any different from someone performing a similar exchange with a store gift card.

[bjs1779]

I got half way through it, and had to stop. The word “Liberty appeared on the coin” is about as far as I could stomach.

[Iwo Jima]

WHAT??? Who was stealing what from whom?

[Iwo Jima]

Never mind — I misread your post. The confusion was all mine. (I thought that you said “stealing” instead of “selling”.)

[ReignOfError]

Guilty until proven innocent, apparently.

A search warrant is an investigative tool, and an arrest is not a conviction. Jails in every city and county in this country are filled with people who haven't been convicted of anything, but who are awaiting trial for holding a few ounces of weed.

There are certainly folks who are offended by police abuses and forfeitures all the time. But there are also folks who ignore those abuses most of the time, but take selective offense when the suspect is someone they like.

[Iwo Jima]

The FBI had undercover workers, wired and conversations recorded, all over his business. His accounting firm in violation of their contract resigns without notice (translation: wouldn't play ball with the feds and was scared off). Notice to customers about the audit problems is cited on proof of fraud. His executive director quits after a few months with no good reason other than he lacks "courage" (same translation). The person who just happens to apply for his position is apparently a plant. That Nuthaus uses the term "patriot" when interviewing this person is cited as evidence that these are subversives. A plant who is a guest in an executive's home outlines the floor plan and where the executive likely keeps his coins. Meetings where it is stressed that that cannot use certain terms like "legal tender" are cited as proof that they are counterfeiting.

I've got to go re-read it, it is just too bizarre to be believed.

Yea, like this magistrate judge actually read a 38 page affidavit. Right.