Posted on 11/17/2007 11:07:57 AM PST by mvpel
This thread is linked to a PDF document containing the seizure warrant executed against the property of the Liberty Dollar corporation and the bearers of its negotiable warehouse receipts.
The justification lists charges of money laundering, mail fraud, and wire fraud.
Guilty until proven innocent, apparently.
So many posts, so much ignorance of the Constitution and laws thereunder.
There's no scam involved whatsoever. The coin is not money, and they're not promising any value equivalent to the purchase price, other than what the buyer sees it's worth. The value of the feds, including the judg that perpetrated this offence to freedom is a big negative.
Uh, you mean alleged or suspected "drug dealers" like the landscaper whose cash which he was carrying to purchase trees and supplies was forfeited?
Willie Jones, an African American landscaper, had the misfortune to experience this humiliation.(5) He had $9600 in cash seized from him at the Nashville airport simply because he fit a so called "drug courier profile" - that is, an African American paying for a round-trip airline ticket with cash. He actually planned to use the money to by landscape materials.
They didn't find any drugs, didn't arrest him, didn't charge him with anything, but they kept the money anyway because they thought he might buy drugs with it, and it took him two years of legal battle to get it back.
Yes, I make the same protest!
danged fat fingers. *grumble* *grumble* *grumble*
The only place where you're going to pay spot price for silver is if you bring $7,125 in cash to New York City first thing Monday morning along with a handcart suitable for carting off your 500-ounce (~34 pound) ingot of silver.
That's what the "spot price" is.
For comparison, the US Mint charges $29.95 for a one-ounce silver cameo proof of comparable luster to the $20 one-ounce Liberty Dollar, and $22 for their "uncirculated" one-ounce silver dollars.
What "victims?" What "losses?" What "theft?"
If you sent in $20 plus shipping, you got back a one ounce 0.999 fine silver medallion with a frosted cameo proof finish, something for which the US Mint charges you $29.95 plus shipping.
Or, you got back a beautifully crafted negotiable warehouse receipt (Uniform Commercial Code Section 7) for one ounce of 0.999 fine silver stored at a bonded warehouse in Coeur d'Aleine Idaho, which you could redeem on demand.
Where's the fraud? Where's the theft?
The lack of assets to back the certificates as alleged in the duly processed warrant. Why be emotional about the matter when the plain facts are present?
As to the true of the allegations, that's for the courts to decide. But you seem to have made a knee-jerk decision on the matter before having all of the facts. Interesting way to approach life.
The backing of the certificates has been audited on a monthly basis since 1998 by a licensed Idaho CPA firm. On what basis do they allege that the certificates are unbacked or unredeemable? Why didn’t they raid the records of the CPA firm as well? If the certificates aren’t backed then what was all the gold and silver that they seized?
I agree or your mint price as I have bought several over the years and am now finding that I was cheated big time by the mint. If you go to any coin dealer they will give you the market price of silver - their commission of 10% to 20%. So a coin that the mint charges $29.90 for can be sold for about $13.00 even when they are over 10 to 15 years old. Same with gold and their other coins.
As opposed to a totally legal department store gift card backed by nothing at all.
BTW, I clicked on a liink for 100 dollar bills. I got ripped off. :)
Well, a coin dealer is a businessman, and he's entitled to charge whatever he wishes in a competitive market for the products he's offering based on the willingness of the customers to which he is marketing them to pay it.
A coin dealer I found online is asking about $45 for a 2006 1oz silver Eagle proof. If someone needs it for their collection, and can't find anyone willing to sell them one any cheaper, and the US Mint is out of stock, is that someone being cheated if they willingly pay $45 for it?
What is the "value" of something but what a willing buyer is prepared to pay and what a willing seller is prepared to accept?
And besides, it seems that there's many people, including you, suggesting that this:
... has the same value as this:
???
It's backed by everything you can buy at the store.
I guess I took guidance from the federal agents who seized all the property that was supposed to back the certificates before having all the facts and allegations vetted in a court of law under a system of due process.
Well, it’s the same kind of reasoning that the U.S. uses in its own coins, to prevent them from being melted down. So, I guess what is good for the U.S. is good for those private companies, too...
As far as my liability, there is none, as I was simply selling product across the counter along with other products, and it wasn’t my business. And I doubt there’s going to be any problem having one of those things around (if I could ever find it..., wherever it went...).
Are you equating a merchant’s gift certificates with the merchant creating a currency?
The concept of local currency doesn’t exist in federal law, only federal currency and that is as it must be.
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