Army desertion up 80 percent since Iraq war

MSNBC ^ | 11/16/2007 | AP

[Gondring]

If the numbers now are 9 in 1000, the the 80% increase means that they were 5 in 1000 before.

FY 2006: 3,301
FY 2007: 4,698

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/16/national/main3513410.shtml

[Gondring]

...And the rate through the 90’s was... What?

About half to two-thirds what it is now.

[M Kehoe]

Do you advocate us going into Canada and shooting them?

I'm sure you are aware of the concepts of extradition, and due process. The military has the UCMJ that handles these prosecutions. After extradition, the first step in the process is an Article 32 hearing. That will determine if the defendant will proceed to court martial.

If found guilty, one of the penalties (in time of war) is death.

Oh, and the Pentagon better have a plan to invade Canada.

;^)

5.56mm

[Gondring]

Statistically questionable? We have more deserting than being recruited as raw recruits...

FY 2007 recruitments were 4,564
FY 2007 desertions were 4,698

That's total Army recruitments, even with the lowered standards and the bonuses and "moral waivers" for criminals, etc. And of course, a certain percentage of those recruits will not make it through, and we have other attrition of those enlisted.

I wouldn't say that it's "statistically questionable news"; pretending it's not real doesn't change it. Although I wouldn't say it's near anything like a crisis time, we should still look at the situation and understand the long-term impacts the extended deployment cycles, etc., are having. I want troops who are treated well, without worrying more about some fallacious "Peace Dividend" or poorly conceived Guard re-alignment.

[Gondring]

Obviously leaving after boot-camp like the phony war writer is not deserting....

Desertion prior to redeployment is the big problem. The Army has even acknowledged that the stress of combat is a likely reason for the jump in desertion to above their recruitment rate.

HOW MANY DESERTED WHILE THEY WERE IN THE WAR ZONE ?

What none... zero...

One, according to the Army.

[Gondring]

:-) Okay, just so you understand that it’s not as simple as just walking up and getting rid of them. :-)

[Gondring]

...And the rate through the 90’s was... What?

I should clarify...

Early 90s, about 1/3 what it is now. By the end of the 90s, it was about two-thirds of now.

[Gene Eric]

The media is attempting to use this data as a negative against the military. The desertion stats are reported as being far lower than that of the Vietnam War which, by the way, implemented a different recruitment model than the current voluntary enlistment process. In my view, the data is historically favorable to the military and and less so for the media that is attempting spin the sentiment of those currently serving.

[BIGLOOK]

Live Leak has an interesting article on desertions. Of course the problem is real and for the Army it's been a persistent problem but the point I was trying to make earlier is that at a time when the news from the front is generally good but given little coverage in the MSM, desertion rates for the Army are banner headlines.

Is it statistically questionable? Yes. Is reporting it at a time when war news favors our military efforts politically charged? Yes.

I heard good news from Iraq in a 15 second radio report once on Friday. I heard the desertion problem reported a dozen times on the radio, TV news and in the paper the same day.

INCOMING!

[tomnbeverly]

Oh thats right but he was a Muslim that basically switched sides if I remember correctly.

[Gondring]

How is that Live Leak story you linked any different from the version of this thread?

[BIGLOOK]

Nothing is really different, the numbers match, the problem itself is and has been systemic historically for the Army. The Army's retention rate is stable and actually moving up positively, other branches of the military are not affected by higher desertion rates and no comparative analysis has been presented about high school or college dropouts or attrition due to poor attendance in the work force.

It's a singularly politically charged hit piece in my arrogant opinion.

[Ferox]

The numbers are relatively low although one is one too many. When you are working with such a small number, percentages appear more sensational than they really are. This is making a mountain out of a very small mole hole.

[Gondring]

When you are working with such a small number, percentages appear more sensational than they really are. This is making a mountain out of a very small mole hole.

So the fact that desertions exceed recruitments (total recruitments, before any Basic Training dropouts, etc.) doesn't matter?

Again, it's not crippling, but it's something of interest.

[aroundabout]

Increase thru 90’s probably a reflection of changes as society as a whole. Rules and commitments mean zilch. Don’t like what you’re doing? No problem, just quit.

This will all come home to roost in the years to come and while I won’t be much affected due to my age, I feel sorry for the young folks who will bear the brunt of the changes. But then they are the cause so it is justice after all.