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Posted on 11/16/2007 10:13:07 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
EVANSVILLE, Indiana (AP) — Federal agents raided the headquarters of a group that produces illegal currency and puts it in circulation, seizing gold, silver and two tons of copper coins featuring Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul.
Agents also took records, computers and froze the bank accounts at the "Liberty Dollar" headquarters during the Thursday raid, Bernard von NotHaus, founder of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, said in a posting on the group's Web site.
The organization, which is critical of the Federal Reserve, has repeatedly clashed with the federal government, which contends that the gold, silver and copper coins it produces are illegal.
(Excerpt) Read more at politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com ...
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The Franklin Mint, which is the world’s largest private minter of coins, has such a good reputation that it produces commemorative coins for many goverments of the world. (I should point out that NORFED is a different company.)
Private companies have never caused inflation, whether through the debasement of coins or through paper money, as governments have. The reason is simple. It is illegal for private companies to say something that isn’t silver (or gold) is silver (or gold). Of course, in the case of the Liberty Dollar, the person who accepts the paper certificates of the company (as opposed to its coins) has to rely on the signed audit of the inventory of the company, and we all know that you can’t completely trust CPA firms (or anybody else). (I always recommend that people diversify their wealth.)
The use of coins and paper money by Constitutionalists as expressions of political speech is very appropriate.
From their perspective, the writing out of the Constituteion the provision that only gold and silver would be legal tender, and that bills of credit (government-issued paper money) are prohibited, is part and parcel of the growth of big government in our country.
Where we once had a federal government of limited and enumerated powers, we now have a federal government that can make it illegal for you to grow marijuana on your own property and consume it while on your own property, because if you didn’t do that, you might buy government-sanctioned drugs such as prescription drugs or alcohol and, thus, your consumption of marijuana affects inter-state commerce. Any true conservative, such as Sandra Day O’Conner, who wrote the dissent in that case, would feel like our Constitution is completely without any protection of individual liberty or property (except that being homosexual acts are absolutely protected).
For some people, it’s the abortion issue that illustrates how powerful government has become, that life itself, of the weak and defenseless, is no longer protected. For others, it’s the 2nd Amendment. But, whether we’re talking about freedom of religion, freedom of expression, the right to privacy, or the other rights in the Constitution or simply understood by everyone to be our rights at the Founding, for libertarians all of our rights are part of one right, namely, that right that comes from being sons and daughters of God who is Lord over all, including of the kings of this world.
no, it’s historical fact that governments debased their coins
The point you make (concerning the physical amount of silver in the coin) is well taken, and it’s the reason I don’t buy any of this money. You can do better buying bullion coins, if what you want to do is include some precious metal in your portfolio. (There are yet other ways.) This particular company tries to increase its profit by making commemorative coins with images and so forth that are emotionally appealing to particular buyers, and, similarly, with the paper certificates. I wouldn’t call this a scam, anymore than selling Harley’s is a scam. In business, you make money by serving your cusomters well, and there are many different kinds of people out there.
A coin as speech is fine and I agree it is appropriate. This guy, however, IS a huckster. He tries to ride a fine line by claiming the coins as “currency” while simultaneously denying that they are currency. If you want gold coins, then buy coins like the Maple Leaf, American Eagle, etc. and not stuff from a charlatan who plays on people’s sentiment. You mentioned the Franlin Mint. The Franklin Mint has permission from countries to make those commemorative coins.
Also, I have no problem with barter. I do have a problem with someone who is duping people with a scam.
Well, gold is real money and paper isn’t except that government uses armed agents to sustain the fiction.
As an amusement, when I travel, I often carry a 1/4 oz gold US bullion coin. At today’s prices, it is worth around $200. When purchasing gasoline or food, I ask the cashier if I can pay in gold. I always get a real puzzled look and a stammer. They say we take “cash”. I ask if they will accept “Federal Reserve Notes”. Most will not, except when I show them one of the bills.
To the gold question, the best retort to my question was that the store owner declined because, as he said, he could not make proper change.
So far, nobody has been willing to take gold in payment for a tank of gasoline or a diner lunch. Only a few percent will take “Federal Reserve Notes” when asked using that term.
It is beyond belief that Liberty Dollars are illegal. If the vast majority of cashiers in my multi-year informal test will not even take FRNs when that term is used. How in the world does the Justice Department hope to convince a majority of jurors that anyone might be “confused” that Liberty Dollars are issued by the US government.
The old saying is, if you strike the king, you must die. Touching the king’s fiat, paper, currency strikes the king in the deepest possible way. My only regret is that the folks at Liberty Dollar had not taken any step for business continuity in the event of a site disaster.
governments will debase any currency if they want to spend more money. The real problem is congress, not the federal reserve. While I am ultimately for a money based on the price of gold, if we just switch and don’t deal with the spending first, we’d have a messed up gold dollar that would be even worse than what we have today because at least it doesn’t pretend to be based on something solid.
I suppose that you think the government should arrest everyone who sells a product that is exactly what it says it is, if the profit margin is too high, because they’re playing on the emotions of the buyer.
Selling Maple Leafs is o.k., because they only have commodity value. But, selling coins with a depction of the Twin Towers, or of Princess Diana, or of Elvis, that would be suspect because potential buyers might be attributing emotional value to them.
also, you’re a fool for giving your gold but the cashier is an even bigger fool for not taking it :)
Sunshine Minting Co. produced the Liberty coins. They are legit, but it sounds like they got raided also. http://sunshinemint.com/Bullion.htm
There is nothing illegal about anything that they have ever produced.
This is due to the impending total collapse of the dollar, and nothing else.
It's truly sad that this country has fallen this far under a Republican president.
No. He is trying to make people think that these things are more than just nifty little medallions.
Do the Franklin min people try to get you to buy the coins as a means of barter? No. They are commemorative coins and they sell them as nothing more. The Liberty Dollar peddler plays with semantics to convince people that they are buying something more than any commemorative coin.
Thank goodness I've already long since made arrangements for my daring, breathless last-second getaway, just as the Bilderberg Apocalypse hits!
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