Illegal Ron Paul Currency Seized [more deatils, re: the ongoing "Liberty Dollar" follies]

CNN.com ^ | 11/16/2007 | Staff

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

EVANSVILLE, Indiana (AP) — Federal agents raided the headquarters of a group that produces illegal currency and puts it in circulation, seizing gold, silver and two tons of copper coins featuring Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul.

Agents also took records, computers and froze the bank accounts at the "Liberty Dollar" headquarters during the Thursday raid, Bernard von NotHaus, founder of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, said in a posting on the group's Web site.

The organization, which is critical of the Federal Reserve, has repeatedly clashed with the federal government, which contends that the gold, silver and copper coins it produces are illegal.

[Fabozz]

"While I don’t think it was wise of Paul to let them use his likeness on the coins, and he may have received financial remunertion, he wasn’t an official of the company."

It wasn't "wise" of Paul to lend his likeness to counterfeit currency, but he did it anyway.

It wasn't "wise" of Paul to accept campaign contributions funneled through a Nazi website, but he did it anyway.

It wasn't "wise" of Paul to appear on a truther radio show, but he did it anyway.

It wasn't "wise" of Paul to write a column for a white supremacist magazine, but he did it anyway.

At what point do you conclude that either Paul lacks any semblance of common sense, or he's simply comfortable with these crackpots' views? Surely this whole "hey, I had no idea they were crackpots" schtick is starting to wear a bit thin, no?

[raygun]

I meant FRN's. You know what I menat. Good thing to clear that up.

O.k., I hear that you don't believe this is a political thing, but a "tax evasion" thing. O.k.

That last part was snide on my part with respect to discourse pertaining to contentious issues at FR. Unfortunately, and most poignantly, it pertains to the ID controversy. The PBS Nova presentation made a big deal about how anti-ID proponents received boockoo (sp?) death threats (both before & post-trial).

Dunno.

[Toddsterpatriot]

O.k., I hear that you don't believe this is a political thing, but a "tax evasion" thing. O.k.

You don't think it was a tax evasion thing?

That last part was snide on my part with respect to discourse pertaining to contentious issues at FR.

So I wasn't making death threats, right? Glad we could clear that up.

Do you think he was successful in evading taxes? Or helping his employees evade taxes?

[DoughtyOne]

I’m not familiar with the items you’ve listed. I will say that I am not a Paul fan. At one time I thought he was a sound voice. Today I think of him as a guy who has lost his way. As it relates to the War on Terrorism, I can only judge him to be terribly misguided. He’ll never get a vote from me.

[raygun]

While not conceding, at a minimum I acquiesce to the main point in contention.

Are you telling me that you would not accept diamonds engraved with Ron Paul likeness in exchange for a brand new F-50?

Quite frankly, I believe the entire conversation to be out of your league (you don't know anything about F-50's, gold, silver, collector numismatic/philately, or even foodstamps).

All that you know is based on green-back money, and the idea that you'll deal with it when you get there (and since you'll never get there, you'll never have to deal with it).

Lets talk 'bout asset forfieture laws. Your juvenile (under 18 - for those of you that are lip reading) nephew occupies/frequents your domicile (that's "house" for you lip-readers). Lets suppose your nephew is dealing marijuana based on "product" that he grew unbeknownst to you. THe FedGov can seize your house, vehicle's, bank-accounts (and whatever else they ascertain to be involved in that "criminal" activity).

Now, then, the FedGov decides to let off your nephew becauase of "whatever" reason. Do you get your crap back? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...

[gnarledmaw]

"The Internal Revenue Service had never before provided guidance on how to handle gold and silver coins that circulate, only on noncirculating collectible coins, according to Kennedy, who is a federal public defender."

How many forms of "circulating" gold and silver coins are out there? I suspect the answer is directly related to the raid.

[raygun]

Thank you for your response.

First off, what "is" and what I imagine "might be" are two differant things (in my mind).

Secondly, I don't want make alarmisms pertaining to death=threats, but the "anti-creationists" have been purported as having recieved "death-threats" because of their views, positions, actions and consequences.

I have no idea whether or not you've made daeth threats. If I ever run into somebody wearing a "Daeth-Cat" shirt, well, then...

BTW: Daeth-Cat and are not the "same" band, o.k.?

[garbanzo]

It’s a great scam. He sells his silver coins with a cost of about $10 or paper with a cost of about 20 cents. he charges $20.00 in real moeny for it, with a promise to redeem it for real US moeny again any time you want it.

It's such a great scam, the Federal Reserve and other central banks have gotten in on it - it even has a special name called "seignorage".

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

Drugs, Hookers and taking others money.

The theme to my old high school prom! Ah, sweet nostalgia...! ;)

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

Simply offer The Liberty Dollar with the confidence that it will be accepted. After all, why wouldn't it?

[Smokin' Joe]

It wasn't "wise" of Paul to write a column for a white supremacist magazine, but he did it anyway.

WHat magazine was that?

[Toddsterpatriot]

I have no idea whether or not you've made daeth threats.

Then you should assume I have not.

If I ever run into somebody wearing a "Daeth-Cat" shirt, well, then...

I have no idea what you're talking about.

BTW: Daeth-Cat and are not the "same" band, o.k.?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's such a great scam, the Federal Reserve and other central banks have gotten in on it - it even has a special name called "seignorage".

What a scam. What does the Federal Reserve do with all the money they make?

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Then shouldn't you have a pancake on your head...? ;)

[Iwo Jima]

I do have a problem with someone who is duping people with a scam.

I'm waiting to hear from ANYBODY who says that they were "duped with a scam."

All of the customers that I have read about were very satisfied until the federal government stole their property.

[Iwo Jima]

FILL IN THE BLANKS: "A _____ and his _____ are soon ________." ;)

"A patriot and his courage are soon needed."

[Iwo Jima]

If under your argument, only the coins are illegal, then why confiscate the bullion and the notes?

[Iwo Jima]

I think it was the way this company marketed them, as if they were some real substitute for money instead of a novelty, that does have value, that people can barter all they want but still isn’t legal tender.

But if that was the problem, wouldn't we have heard from at least one person that there was deceptive marketing? You are just assuming that because YOU would not have made this purchase if apprised of the facts, that NO ONE would have and ergo there must not have been full disclosure.

[Iwo Jima]

The Constitution grants no authority to print money. I guess it never occurred to them that anyone would consider paper or anything that could be printed as “money.” Money substitutes or claims for money, sure, but not money per se.