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Illegal Ron Paul Currency Seized [more deatils, re: the ongoing "Liberty Dollar" follies]
CNN.com ^ | 11/16/2007 | Staff

Posted on 11/16/2007 10:13:07 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle

EVANSVILLE, Indiana (AP) — Federal agents raided the headquarters of a group that produces illegal currency and puts it in circulation, seizing gold, silver and two tons of copper coins featuring Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul.

Agents also took records, computers and froze the bank accounts at the "Liberty Dollar" headquarters during the Thursday raid, Bernard von NotHaus, founder of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, said in a posting on the group's Web site.

The organization, which is critical of the Federal Reserve, has repeatedly clashed with the federal government, which contends that the gold, silver and copper coins it produces are illegal.

(Excerpt) Read more at politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bogusbucks; counterfeiting; libertydollar; libertydollars; norfed; nothaus; paulestinians; playmoney; ronpaul
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To: mysterio

I notice the same dichotomy among a lot of posters when it pertains to the “credibility” of any of the MSM news outlets: If it gores THEIR ox, well then it’s a biased story and probably bogus; if it gores SOMEONE ELSE’S ox, then it’s Gospel truth.


221 posted on 11/16/2007 9:45:25 PM PST by Proud2BAmerican
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To: rec; bjs1779

So what do you think this guy accomplished?


222 posted on 11/16/2007 9:47:10 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (What came first, the bad math or the goldbuggery?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
told you, I don’t over pay by 80% or more for commodities. Sorry.

Well, I was thinking you were smart and bought it in the 20 dollar range. Just funning of course. : )

223 posted on 11/16/2007 9:47:51 PM PST by bjs1779
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To: Toddsterpatriot
So what do you think this guy accomplished?

I don't know, but you seem to lack confidence in the citizens of this country in returning a not guilty verdict. In other words, you slant pro government. Right?

224 posted on 11/16/2007 9:51:53 PM PST by bjs1779
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To: bjs1779; Toddsterpatriot
In other words, you slant pro government. Right?

Tell um how many government charts ya post Todd.

225 posted on 11/16/2007 9:56:20 PM PST by dragnet2
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To: Army Air Corps

“The Paulerrand.”

KrugerRon maybe?


226 posted on 11/16/2007 9:58:29 PM PST by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: bjs1779
I don't know, but you seem to lack confidence in the citizens of this country in returning a not guilty verdict.

I was disappointed that O.J. got away with murder.

In other words, you slant pro government. Right?

I'm in favor of smaller government. And I know that whenever the government tries something, people can find ways to outsmart the Feds.

227 posted on 11/16/2007 9:58:52 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (What came first, the bad math or the goldbuggery?)
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To: dragnet2
I do enjoy the factual charts you post.
228 posted on 11/16/2007 9:59:30 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (What came first, the bad math or the goldbuggery?)
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To: PLMerite
The Shrimp Dollar?
229 posted on 11/16/2007 10:00:23 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (What came first, the bad math or the goldbuggery?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
I hate to break it to you, but Social Security payments are adjusted every year for inflation.

That does not so much matter, if the income is in inflated dollars tied into a fixed tier of rates and income numbers are inflatng, too.

As the SSI payments increase, a greater proportion becomes taxable, iirc.

That way more people are paying higher rates and getting caught up in things like the AMT, so the result is more revenue for the Government. I'd bet that increase will outstrip even the increase in the payments.

Unless the indexes are indexed for inflation, at some point having enough to buy bread will make you, by definition, "rich", just as a six figure income does today, although median home prices have gone from $20-30K to $ 185K in the time since those definitions of 'wealth' were codified.

230 posted on 11/16/2007 10:00:24 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: dragnet2
Tell um how many government charts ya post Todd.

NO! Any name that ends up with patriot at the end has to be good!

231 posted on 11/16/2007 10:00:26 PM PST by bjs1779
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To: Pilsner

Some pretty distinguished addresses there, imo, especially 221B... LOL!


232 posted on 11/16/2007 10:02:20 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
That does not so much matter, if the income is in inflated dollars tied into a fixed tier of rates and income numbers are inflatng, too.

As the SSI payments increase, a greater proportion becomes taxable, iirc.

Income tax brackets are adjusted for inflation too.

That way more people are paying higher rates and getting caught up in things like the AMT,

AMT is not adjusted for inflation.

233 posted on 11/16/2007 10:04:24 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (What came first, the bad math or the goldbuggery?)
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To: Proud2BAmerican
I notice the same dichotomy among a lot of posters when it pertains to the “credibility” of any of the MSM news outlets: If it gores THEIR ox, well then it’s a biased story and probably bogus; if it gores SOMEONE ELSE’S ox, then it’s Gospel truth.

I noticed that, too, and it bears repeating, imo. (Well said!)

234 posted on 11/16/2007 10:10:01 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
I'm in favor of smaller government. And I know that whenever the government tries something, people can find ways to outsmart the Feds.

Just try not to let them get to the point where we can't outsmart them. This appears to be a more serious business these days, imo. Make fun all you want.

235 posted on 11/16/2007 10:12:57 PM PST by bjs1779
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To: Toddsterpatriot
You ask: "What did this guy accomplish?"

He got the saudry details of the FR Act be looked at by the various x42 appointees.

Dunno, maybe this will have the outgrowth of having the IRS Act examined, and furthermore the popular vote for Senator.

These three issue are in my opinion the greatest speed-bumps that there are in this Republic (so far as wee know it).

Perhaps this may be a stare decisis watershed, in that other heinous and egregious Constitutional violations may get overturned, e.g. the FDR era SCOTUS ruling that growing stuff on your property (and for personal purpose) does not exclude it from "contraband" declaration. In other words, if you're growing corn, and you're over the Fed limit for corn, then you are at risk of being convicted of a felony.

Suppose that you grow corn on your own property, using no outside materials for its growth, maintenance, or harvesting, and you consume it entirely on your property. By so doing you have contended with the authority of Congress, and in so doing you are, in the eyes of the Law, feloniously violating Congress' Constitutional mandate to regulate inter-state commerce.

You can go there all you want, but I don't think that issue is going to be resolved today. What I had hoped could be resolved last night is that anything that I care to offer you in exchange for whatever your offering is legal and indeed legitimate. Now, one thing certain is that the banks do not accept LD's. SO, if I want to pay taxes, then I have to pay in FDR's, right?

SO if this is NOT a political vendetta, or something, then it must be a tax evasion thing. I'd love to see somebody prove what I jsut said is fallacious. And no, I'm not going to lip-read for you clowns either.

Temp in this thread is getting warm (I hope/pray that discussion/debate remains at least on similiar discourse as may be found in evolution/interstat-commerce/libertaraian threads.

Look, no need to bandy about death-threats, eh? Unless you strongly feel about that, and then I feel strongly you need to be in jail.

236 posted on 11/16/2007 10:13:01 PM PST by raygun ("It is wrong always, everywhere, anf for anyone to believe anything upon insufficient evidence")
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To: raygun
So if the individual has 50 tons of silver that has been assayed, and guaranteed to be .999 pure, will have its day in court. However, nevertheless, and that notwithstanding, the rights afforded Man do not apply to that of property. And so the property will have to prove its innocence in accordance to the levels of proof required by criminal cases (as opposed to civil cases).

IOW, it is likely the metals siezed will not return to the folks they were siezed from...(I'm so surprized! /s)

237 posted on 11/16/2007 10:14:55 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: raygun

Those old silver dollars are amazing. It must of took a lot of thought and detail to make them. Now we just throw more ink jet cartridges in the printer.


238 posted on 11/16/2007 10:20:42 PM PST by bjs1779
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To: raygun
Now, one thing certain is that the banks do not accept LD's. SO, if I want to pay taxes, then I have to pay in FDR's, right?

FRNs? Right.

SO if this is NOT a political vendetta, or something, then it must be a tax evasion thing.

Right. Do you think he was succesful in evading taxes? Or helping his employees evade taxes?

Look, no need to bandy about death-threats, eh?

Huh?

Unless you strongly feel about that, and then I feel strongly you need to be in jail.

What are you talking about?

239 posted on 11/16/2007 10:21:48 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (What came first, the bad math or the goldbuggery?)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Dude, that was the first thing that came to my mind (before anything else). My immediate second thought was that this thread would be a Libertarian shit-fest.

I do believe that the latter is proper and correct for a bunch of un-educated aggrarian-farmer types (such as are found all over this board), discussing philosophy and higher intellectual concepts such as "republic" and what not (whilest drinking grog after a day's worth of work).

Perhaps my expectation of conciliatoriness are too lofty (give the pool from which the consensus is expected).

Sie solten meinen Bruder sein, oder werde Ich deienem Kopff abschlagen.

240 posted on 11/16/2007 10:26:46 PM PST by raygun ("It is wrong always, everywhere, anf for anyone to believe anything upon insufficient evidence")
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