Illegal Ron Paul Currency Seized [more deatils, re: the ongoing "Liberty Dollar" follies]

CNN.com ^ | 11/16/2007 | Staff

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

EVANSVILLE, Indiana (AP) — Federal agents raided the headquarters of a group that produces illegal currency and puts it in circulation, seizing gold, silver and two tons of copper coins featuring Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul.

Agents also took records, computers and froze the bank accounts at the "Liberty Dollar" headquarters during the Thursday raid, Bernard von NotHaus, founder of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, said in a posting on the group's Web site.

The organization, which is critical of the Federal Reserve, has repeatedly clashed with the federal government, which contends that the gold, silver and copper coins it produces are illegal.

[Proud2BAmerican]

I notice the same dichotomy among a lot of posters when it pertains to the “credibility” of any of the MSM news outlets: If it gores THEIR ox, well then it’s a biased story and probably bogus; if it gores SOMEONE ELSE’S ox, then it’s Gospel truth.

[Toddsterpatriot]

So what do you think this guy accomplished?

[bjs1779]

told you, I don’t over pay by 80% or more for commodities. Sorry.

Well, I was thinking you were smart and bought it in the 20 dollar range. Just funning of course. : )

[bjs1779]

So what do you think this guy accomplished?

I don't know, but you seem to lack confidence in the citizens of this country in returning a not guilty verdict. In other words, you slant pro government. Right?

[dragnet2]

In other words, you slant pro government. Right?

Tell um how many government charts ya post Todd.

[PLMerite]

“The Paulerrand.”

KrugerRon maybe?

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't know, but you seem to lack confidence in the citizens of this country in returning a not guilty verdict.

I was disappointed that O.J. got away with murder.

In other words, you slant pro government. Right?

I'm in favor of smaller government. And I know that whenever the government tries something, people can find ways to outsmart the Feds.

[Toddsterpatriot]

I do enjoy the factual charts you post.

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Shrimp Dollar?

[Smokin' Joe]

I hate to break it to you, but Social Security payments are adjusted every year for inflation.

That does not so much matter, if the income is in inflated dollars tied into a fixed tier of rates and income numbers are inflatng, too.

As the SSI payments increase, a greater proportion becomes taxable, iirc.

That way more people are paying higher rates and getting caught up in things like the AMT, so the result is more revenue for the Government. I'd bet that increase will outstrip even the increase in the payments.

Unless the indexes are indexed for inflation, at some point having enough to buy bread will make you, by definition, "rich", just as a six figure income does today, although median home prices have gone from $20-30K to $ 185K in the time since those definitions of 'wealth' were codified.

[bjs1779]

Tell um how many government charts ya post Todd.

NO! Any name that ends up with patriot at the end has to be good!

[Smokin' Joe]

Some pretty distinguished addresses there, imo, especially 221B... LOL!

[Toddsterpatriot]

That does not so much matter, if the income is in inflated dollars tied into a fixed tier of rates and income numbers are inflatng, too.

As the SSI payments increase, a greater proportion becomes taxable, iirc.

Income tax brackets are adjusted for inflation too.

That way more people are paying higher rates and getting caught up in things like the AMT,

AMT is not adjusted for inflation.

[Smokin' Joe]

I notice the same dichotomy among a lot of posters when it pertains to the “credibility” of any of the MSM news outlets: If it gores THEIR ox, well then it’s a biased story and probably bogus; if it gores SOMEONE ELSE’S ox, then it’s Gospel truth.

I noticed that, too, and it bears repeating, imo. (Well said!)

[bjs1779]

I'm in favor of smaller government. And I know that whenever the government tries something, people can find ways to outsmart the Feds.

Just try not to let them get to the point where we can't outsmart them. This appears to be a more serious business these days, imo. Make fun all you want.

[raygun]

You ask: "What did this guy accomplish?"

He got the saudry details of the FR Act be looked at by the various x42 appointees.

Dunno, maybe this will have the outgrowth of having the IRS Act examined, and furthermore the popular vote for Senator.

These three issue are in my opinion the greatest speed-bumps that there are in this Republic (so far as wee know it).

Perhaps this may be a stare decisis watershed, in that other heinous and egregious Constitutional violations may get overturned, e.g. the FDR era SCOTUS ruling that growing stuff on your property (and for personal purpose) does not exclude it from "contraband" declaration. In other words, if you're growing corn, and you're over the Fed limit for corn, then you are at risk of being convicted of a felony.

Suppose that you grow corn on your own property, using no outside materials for its growth, maintenance, or harvesting, and you consume it entirely on your property. By so doing you have contended with the authority of Congress, and in so doing you are, in the eyes of the Law, feloniously violating Congress' Constitutional mandate to regulate inter-state commerce.

You can go there all you want, but I don't think that issue is going to be resolved today. What I had hoped could be resolved last night is that anything that I care to offer you in exchange for whatever your offering is legal and indeed legitimate. Now, one thing certain is that the banks do not accept LD's. SO, if I want to pay taxes, then I have to pay in FDR's, right?

SO if this is NOT a political vendetta, or something, then it must be a tax evasion thing. I'd love to see somebody prove what I jsut said is fallacious. And no, I'm not going to lip-read for you clowns either.

Temp in this thread is getting warm (I hope/pray that discussion/debate remains at least on similiar discourse as may be found in evolution/interstat-commerce/libertaraian threads.

Look, no need to bandy about death-threats, eh? Unless you strongly feel about that, and then I feel strongly you need to be in jail.

[Smokin' Joe]

So if the individual has 50 tons of silver that has been assayed, and guaranteed to be .999 pure, will have its day in court. However, nevertheless, and that notwithstanding, the rights afforded Man do not apply to that of property. And so the property will have to prove its innocence in accordance to the levels of proof required by criminal cases (as opposed to civil cases).

IOW, it is likely the metals siezed will not return to the folks they were siezed from...(I'm so surprized! /s)

[bjs1779]

Those old silver dollars are amazing. It must of took a lot of thought and detail to make them. Now we just throw more ink jet cartridges in the printer.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Now, one thing certain is that the banks do not accept LD's. SO, if I want to pay taxes, then I have to pay in FDR's, right?

FRNs? Right.

SO if this is NOT a political vendetta, or something, then it must be a tax evasion thing.

Right. Do you think he was succesful in evading taxes? Or helping his employees evade taxes?

Look, no need to bandy about death-threats, eh?

Huh?

Unless you strongly feel about that, and then I feel strongly you need to be in jail.

What are you talking about?

[raygun]

Dude, that was the first thing that came to my mind (before anything else). My immediate second thought was that this thread would be a Libertarian shit-fest.

I do believe that the latter is proper and correct for a bunch of un-educated aggrarian-farmer types (such as are found all over this board), discussing philosophy and higher intellectual concepts such as "republic" and what not (whilest drinking grog after a day's worth of work).

Perhaps my expectation of conciliatoriness are too lofty (give the pool from which the consensus is expected).

Sie solten meinen Bruder sein, oder werde Ich deienem Kopff abschlagen.