FBI raids Liberty Dollar office-confiscates Ron Paul Dollars

http://www.rabidquill.com/ ^ | Nov 15, 2007 | "BJT"

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

Frontal Assault on Freedom: FBI Raids Liberty Dollar Posted by BJT on Nov 15, 2007 Read this email closely. I just got it this morning. Those of you who consider the gold standard a quaint anachronism, pay extra close attention. If Ron Paul supporters, gold standard advocates and the Liberty Dollar were nothing but harmless kooks, why would the FBI raid their offices when no crime was ever committed? This is a currency competing with the USD, yes, but they never, but never make the claim that it is legal tender or anything other than what it is: private currency. And private currencies are numerous in the USA.

No. This raid happened because the Liberty Dollar, the second most popular currency in the country, threatens to usurp the entrenched power of the Fed’s Almighty Dollar. People can see the buying power of the greenback eroding, and they will choose something else if it is available, and the Liberty Dollar is ready and waiting. And that’s why the government must resort to force in order to protect its stranglehold on the economy.

From Liberty Dollar Headquarters: Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled… if ever… it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert… so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus

[DoughtyOne]

That is a good question. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

Specifically, calling round slugs of silver “coins” is indeed illegal, because they are then “coinage” and only Congress can authorize the minting of “coinage”. They can call them “rounds”. That’s why, if you go a bullion seller such as www.tulving.com or www.amark.com , generic silver rounds are called “rounds”, not coins. Lazily, we may call round metal things that have a value stamped on them “coins”, but that’s a definite misnomer. One can call US Silver, Gold, or Platinum Eagles “coins” but one would have to be certifiably nuts to tender a $14-$15 slug of silver as payment for an obligation of ONE USD (the denomination stamped on a US silver eagle. Likewise for a $785-830 Gold Eagle stamped “$50.”

The paper money thay’ve issued is, IMO, the big bugaboo in this case.

[kevkrom]

I somehow got on a Liberty Dollar e-mail list. They wouldn’t take me off!!! And, there’s no unsubscribe link in their messages.

That's a violation of 15 USC 7701 (summary), a/k/a the "CAN-SPAM Act".

[ctdonath2]

So whither the “scam”? Why is this any different from buying gold bullion of the same weight?

[bcsco]

So are Liberty Dollars. :shrug:

But gift cards are only redeemable in the issuer's establishment. Thus to compare them with Liberty Dollars, liberty dollars could only be redeemed by whoever issued it. However, the issuer here is implying it's a barter currency if not an alternate legal currency. That implies redemption anywhere.

BIG difference.

[SJackson]

All this [the creation and sale of the Ron Paul Dollar] will be a big surprise to Dr. Paul....I'm not gonna post that any bigger. If you still don't see it, call an eye doctor.

I'd use smaller type next time. This is certainly not the worst of Ron Paul's many questionable associations, but the standare Paul excuse of I don't know about them isn't much more credible here than it usually is. This coin was discussed on FR a while back, and you'll find plenty of comments at Paul forums. As the google cache below demonstrates the coin was designed as a campaign contribution. And while I'm not suggesting Paul or his campaign knew about this, these associations aren't helpful. BTW, that could also be the aspect the FBI is looking at.

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[lormand]

I hope you don't mind me adding you to my Prawned Paul Ping, aka, Suicide^3

[50mm]

Wonder how many of the Paulestinian faithful right here, on this very site, just happen to have "Liberty Dollars" in their possession.

No repsonses from Liberty Dollar "investors." Go figure.

[BlazingArizona]

What are Ron Paul dollars backed by? The full faith and credit of Ron Paul?

Because it's not fiat money ("This paper is worth one dollar because we say it is"), its value is the bullion in it. It does not have to be "backed" by anything.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

Well, they are positively overcharging for bullion. But it’s not illegal, AFAIK, to charge someone more than the market price for a slug of .999 silver.

The scam(s) is/are: “we can’t ship what you’ve paid us for and we lost our records of your order”; “we’re fighting for honest [paper] currency backed by precious metals”. And the whole paper money aspect of the thing is miles beyond bogus.

[tacticalogic]

How bout’ the fat boy pic please?

Who's got that pic of a bunch of chlidren mocking a label? That's my favorite.

[Wallace T.]

Only a fool would accept these medallions or pieces of paper as currency. Since 1862, the only valid currency or coin in the United States has been printed or minted with the express consent of the U.S. Treasury. It is not the business of government to protect fools from their foolishness. If someone wants to accept overpriced disks or paper with unknown value for whatever reason, that is his business. It only supports the adage of P.T. Barnum that a sucker is born every minute.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

No repsonses from Liberty Dollar "investors." Go figure.

Gotta be tough, cringing in mortal embarrassment while frantically attempting to type "RON PAUL RULZ & U R ALL TEH SUXXORR!!!11!!," simultaneously. ;)

[wideawake]

So whither the “scam”?

You probably mean "whence."

The scam is that he was selling $759.40 of gold for $1000, $13.82 of silver for $20 and 24 cents of copper for $1 dollar while simultaneously claiming that these coins were exchangeable "dollar-for-dollar" with legal tender currency.

If that isn't a scam, I'm not sure what is.

[lormand]

"Who's got that pic of a bunch of chlidren mocking a label? That's my favorite."

I'm not sure which one you are referring to, but I'm very curious not. I'd like to see that one.

[calex59]

Traveler's checks and gift cards are legal so I don't think that's the problem.

Travelers checks and gift cards are special circumstances and are not currency. They are purchased with currency and can be redeemed for United States currency, travelers checks almost anywhere and gift cards only at the store that issued them. When I have a pocket full of travelers checks I have a pocket full of US minted money.

When I have a pocket full of Libery Dollars I have a pocket full of, possibly, counterfeit coins that are not redeemable for US currency and are not backed by the feds.

Like it or not, making your own money is not legal, even if the actual value of the coins is more than the equivalent US currency(don't know if liberty dollars are worth more or not).

We should wait and see if this was really a property grab or if the law was justified in confiscating this property.

[darkwing104]

Go ahead...

[lormand]

done

[SJackson]

Because it's not fiat money ("This paper is worth one dollar because we say it is"), its value is the bullion in it. It does not have to be "backed" by anything.

They issue paper money and E deposits, presumably as warehouse receipts, in addition to coin.

[Grunthor]

“theft of private property by our government.”

It’s called a warrant and I think you’ll find that most are fine with it.