GIULIANI & KERIK: GUILT BY ASSOCIATION? (joined at the hip----a stench in the nostrils)

NY POST ^ | November 14, 2007 | VOX POPULI

[Liz]

**** Kerik is a stench in the nostrils of all those in law enforcement Let the trial begin. NAMES REDACTED Nanuet

**** Kerik has seriously undermined Giuliani's bid for president.....and made President Bush look foolish for nominating him for the Homeland Security post.......appears a complete career turnaround - from cop to inmate is just around the bend. Farmingdale

**** Kerik needs to start talking honestly regarding the widespread corruption in and around New York politics, the courts and the legal system. Manhattan

**** Guiliani is stuck with Kerik. Bring him on. Silver Spring, Md.

[SUSSA]

Russell Harding is the liberal dork who enjoyed kiddie porn on city computers and took trips with his gay friends on the taxpayers' dime.

That's the kind of people Rudy appoints to powerful positions. Rudy has no character so doesn't look for it in those he appoints.

[calcowgirl]

You know something? What’s bothers me about the current state of the debate on FR and within conservative and Republican ranks is that there’s a heck of a lot of transgression of Reagan’s Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican.

What bothers me is a bunch of folks, including Rudy, rewriting history in an attempt to silence discourse.

Reagan's "11th commandment" was not Reagan's at all, but that of California state GOP chairman, Dr. Gaylord B. Parkinson, who issued the edict in 1965 to deal with grievances between candidates, requiring that they be aired privately or the candidates would be subject to discipline by the GOP. It was issued after Republican George Christopher attacked Republican Ronald Reagan, accusing him of being a member of three communist front groups.

The 11th commandment applied to candidates, NOT voters! It was not intended to eliminate all vetting of candidates, all discussions of issues, or mention of the candidate's past record, particularly that which is clearly in the public record.

Here is what Reagan's biographer said:

“Rudy Giuliani knows as much about the 11th Commandment as he does about conservatism, which is very little. The 11th Commandment was a term created by the Chairman of the California Republican Party, Gaylord Parkinson in 1966. Reagan adopted it to mean that one Republican did not attack another Republican’s patriotism, fidelity or sobriety. Politicians like Giuliani hide behind it when criticized by another on issues, which Reagan did plenty against Ford in 1976 and George Bush in 1980.”

[wagglebee]

You know something? What’s bothers me about the current state of the debate on FR and within conservative and Republican ranks is that there’s a heck of a lot of transgression of Reagan’s Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican.

You mean like when Ronald Reagan ran against Ford in 1976 and told everyone that Ford was too liberal?

This Reagan Commandment thing is an excuse used by Rooty Rooters deflect attention from the fact the Rooty is a leftist.

[Liz]

The 11th commandment-----Thou shalt not speak ill of fellow Republicans-----applied to candidates, NOT voters. It was not intended to eliminate all vetting of candidates, all discussions of issues, or mention of the candidate's past record, particularly that which is clearly in the public record. What bothers me is Rudy and his Tooters rewriting history in an attempt to silence discourse.

As usual, calcowgirl's research is impeccable, and significantly elevates the discussion. Thank you, calcowgirl.

Giuliani's blathering is intellectually facile----and transparently obvious; he will say anything b/c he is consumed with an irrational lust for power.

In Giuliani's irrational, power-crazed mindset----US citizens are merely pawns in his power-grab. Giuliani needs to consider that the US is not a Third World banana republic. US citizens are not subject to the self-centered whims of an irrational, power-crazed dictator.

Rooty's campaign is engaged in a VERY dirty game played by remorseless people: the religious cleansing of the Repub party. The "Everything For Us Nothing For You" RINO types are squatting in the Repub party, plotting to kick so/con Repubs to the curb to obliterate all signs of the party's all-important social conservate base.

Rooty's Plan A was to thumb his nose at conservative primaries. Now he belatedly discovered he REALLY needs conservatives b/c he's losing in conservative strongholds-----crucial early primary/caucus states. That explains Giuliani's erratic contradictory statements on key issues.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican.

Rudy Giuliani is no "fellow" Republican of mine, thank awfully.

[calcowgirl]

...he will say anything b/c he is consumed with an irrational lust for power.

And, amazingly enough, some seem to prefer a dictator to a leader and defender of the country and its people.

[JewishRighter]

I take all the points made about questions of Rudy’s legitimacy as a Republican, about the origin and meaning of the 11th Commandment and the legitimacy of debating the merits and deficiencies of the candidates. I want to make clear to those who think I’m a “Rooty rooter” or whatever that I’m definitely not and that’s not why I made the comment. My only issue is the vehemence of the attacks (which I do think is the point of the 11th commandment) is dangerous to the ultimate goal: NO HILLARY IN THE OVAL OFFICE. More than I desire any particular candidate to run, I want Hillary to lose. The Eleventh Commandment means, “don’t attack other members of your own party to the point that you destroy the party or its chances for success. A fickle mass of the American electorate that constitute the so called swing vote are skittish and easily influenced by the vitriol and badmouthing that goes on within either party. These rather mush-headed people are conditioned to run away from “meanness” or “divisiveness”.

My favorite candidate is Duncan Hunter. Best man in the field by far. But if you ask me who I want if I have to choose between Hillary and Rudy, its a no-brainer. So if he’s going to be the candidate, which is far from inevitable, but a strong possibility, I don’t want him destroyed before he gets to the general election.

[JewishRighter]

BTW Kent, my condolences to you for being trapped in Seattle: I know what I’m talking about. Here in New Jersey, we seem to be doing a pretty good imitation and it feels like being trapped, too.

[publiusF27]

But if you ask me who I want if I have to choose between Hillary and Rudy, its a no-brainer.

Is it? "Not Hillary" sounds like a nice name for a President until you really engage that brain and think about the reality of a President Rudy....

Appointing his personal thugs and union/mobster/thieves to high offices, where they will do their thing, ultimately damaging the credibility of the Republican Party.

Flopping back to his longstanding view that the Congress should pass a law saying we should have to prove that we need a handgun before being allowed to own one.

Where did he think Congress got that power? Lemme guess: the commerce clause.

The next President will be handed a very difficult nation building project in Iraq. Two years later, it will probably still be difficult, and the President's party will suffer in the midterms.

These rather mush-headed people are conditioned to run away from “meanness” or “divisiveness”.

After Hillary screws everything up for a couple of years, Republicans can make gains in Congress. Remember the Republican Revolution in '94?

OTOH, what would Rudy do? Fight for ideas he only recently adopted? Or cower and compromise every time New Yorkers start screaming, "You see! We TOLD you he was mean!"

Last but not least, Republicans seem to me to have forgotten how to question federal spending and executive power grabs, and Rudy will do nothing to rectify that situation. Under President Hillary, some might rediscover the virtues of limited government and separation of powers.

I think Rudy is getting the treatment he deserves here at Free Republic.

[JewishRighter]

Appointing his personal thugs and union/mobster/thieves to high offices, where they will do their thing, ultimately damaging the credibility of the Republican Party.

Sheesh "personal thugs"? You diminish yourself and your argument when you use code pink style rhetoric. Why not just come out and say Rudy is the Anti-Christ? Remember Craig what's his name, the guy with the FBI files? Just the tip of the iceberg of the kind of creeps Hillary will install.

After Hillary screws everything up for a couple of years, Republicans can make gains in Congress. Remember the Republican Revolution in '94?

This is just wishful thinking on your part. That was the product of a perfect storm of stupidity on the part of the Clintoons in their first 2 years in office. They are now a seasoned team of politicians and the MSM is more craven than ever before. With that and the immense numbers of illegal aliens that will probably be able to vote by 2010, I am not at all sanguine about great gains in the midterms.

Under President Hillary, some might rediscover the virtues of limited government and separation of powers.

Huh? I guess you mean that Hillary's brazen attempts to create a Soviet-style command economy, to disband Congress and to install Lesbian Brown Shirt brigades in the Pentagon will touch off a powerful reaction. First of all, let us not rely on her being that stupid. She is from the school of incrementalism. She will make little moves, killing freedom with a thousand little cuts. Second, let us not rely on the American sheeple to care enough to rise up in favor of limited government. Unfortunately, the entitlement system has a vast constituency: every senior receiving drug benefits, medicare and a social security check; every welfare recipient, food stamp recipient, hud housing recipient and a host of other social welfare programs; illegal aliens, who look to the Republicrats in DC to get them a place at the trough; all the government employees whose jobs are dependent on big government; unions (especially teachers), the media and academia. Did I leave anyone out?

For all that you and others say about Rudy, and I fully recognize his deficiencies, he is WAY, WAY, WAY better than that cunning, vicious, lying, phony, ruthless out and out socialist who's great achievement in life is that she enabled the great stainmaker to achieve and hold the presidency. ANYONE BUT HILLARY!!!!

[publiusF27]

OK, so I probably should have just used Kerik’s name instead of the vague ref to “personal thugs”.

I think Hillary could easily make the same mistakes again, given the chance. The MSM may be more craven, but they’re far less relevant. Were you FReeping in ‘94?

I think the people would have a limited tolerance for President Hillary, but even if they don’t care or perhaps support expanding govt, the Republicans in Congress could and would oppose most anything she wanted. I could see many of them supporting the exact same things, if only they came from President Rudy.

Rudy seems to me to be a barely (and questionably) reformed gungrabber who is in love with government power. His nonsensical lawsuit blaming gun makers for crimes is still ongoing, and he hasn’t said he was wrong to file it. Yeah, Hillary is worse, but that’s a deal-breaker for me.