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Credit Crunch May Last Longer Than Thought
http://www.cnbc.com/id/21689516 ^ | 11-8-07

Posted on 11/08/2007 7:57:14 AM PST by Hydroshock

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To: dglang

Aren’t Floridians at the mercy of erratic property tax rates, though?


21 posted on 11/08/2007 10:03:27 AM PST by ErnBatavia (...forward this to your 10 very best friends....)
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To: rightinthemiddle

Short gold and oil. Buy the dollar.

You do that! Load up!

Lurking’


22 posted on 11/08/2007 10:35:10 AM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66 The Choice is Yours!)
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To: LurkingSince'98

I look at the charts on oil and gold...they look like “bubbles.”


23 posted on 11/08/2007 10:40:07 AM PST by rightinthemiddle (Without the Media, the Left and Islamofacists are Nothing.)
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To: Hydroshock

On the other hand, those of us that bought homes and knew better than to take out an ARM, didn’t get a second mortgage so as to pretend we were something we were not, are doing just fine.

My home, and some commercial property I’ve acquired since 2000 has appreciated dramatically, to the point I’m now actively considering getting into real estate here in Ohio as another ‘hobby’.


24 posted on 11/08/2007 10:42:38 AM PST by Badeye (Ron Paul joined 88 Democrats.....)
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To: durasell
Bonds. Overseas currencies

If that's going on to any real extent, bond prices should be rising and yields falling. I don't see that. While foreign currencies are rising against the dollar, I don't know if it's because of arbitrage.

25 posted on 11/08/2007 10:46:39 AM PST by econjack ("Wherever you go, there you are.")
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To: dglang
I don’t doubt that money is available for good credit borrowers, but there is such a housing glut right now, a rather substantial group has to be shut out of that market right now. All I’m asking is where that money that used to end up in the mortgage market has gone.
26 posted on 11/08/2007 10:50:19 AM PST by econjack ("Wherever you go, there you are.")
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To: Hydroshock
Isn't this the same thing we heard in the wake of all the big business accounting scandals?

The Bush administration started going after businesses that had played fast and loose with accounting practices and got away with it under the Clinton administration.

Lots of companies took that opportunity to restate earnings and write off lots of debt.

The market stuttered for a bit, but kept chugging along.

The whole time we were hearing about how we were facing a horrible recession and people would never trust businesses to tell them the truth again in the financial reports, and the result was going to be catastrophic.

Credit will be tight for a while. We are also likely to face some inflation due to the weak dollar. However, we will recover, and it shouldn't take more than a year before we are back on track.

27 posted on 11/08/2007 10:51:31 AM PST by untrained skeptic
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To: rightinthemiddle

Absolutely CORRECT...FED and Mainslime Media are talking the economy into the Bear Market...

There is no reason to participate in such wrong headed thinking!

They will talk the economy into the TANK to get their Gruppenfuhrer Hilliary ELECTED!!!


28 posted on 11/08/2007 10:52:00 AM PST by GRRRRR (The Libtards are spoiling for a big fight!)
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To: cinives

Can you tell me which component of MV = PQ has changed because of the housing market? The velocity of money has been pretty stable for almost 60 years and while the Fed has tinkered with M somewhat, I still don’t see where the remaining funds have gone.


29 posted on 11/08/2007 10:53:32 AM PST by econjack ("Wherever you go, there you are.")
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To: econjack
Where is the unused credit going?

It is going to wherever money comes from before the banks print it. Fed debt hit $9 trillion today. That is righteous credit.

30 posted on 11/08/2007 10:53:34 AM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: GRRRRR
Absolutely CORRECT...FED and Mainslime Media are talking the economy into the Bear Market... There is no reason to participate in such wrong headed thinking! They will talk the economy into the TANK to get their Gruppenfuhrer Hilliary ELECTED!!!

I agree. I think it's Friedman's Realized Expectations in action. Get enough people to think the economy's in the tank and it will go into the tank.

31 posted on 11/08/2007 10:55:34 AM PST by econjack ("Wherever you go, there you are.")
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To: econjack

Bull. Debt creates money, estimated at 97% of all money, and the more debt that can be rolled over, the more “money” there is. (A vastly simplified statement, obviously, but entire bookshelves have been written on the subject).

A small example, simply stated:

Historically, mortgages were granted by banks, who then held them until paid. Over the last years, mortgages were made by brokers, then sliced and diced into CDOs and sold and resold many times over, making more “money” available to lenders who repeat the process.

Velocity increased immensely by this process. Now that the credit markets are restricting loans to all but the best of risks, and CDOs are essentially frozen and declining if not worthless in value, there are not the same number of dollars to continue the lending cycle. Velocity has slowed.


32 posted on 11/08/2007 11:13:00 AM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: cinives
...and sold and resold many times over, making more “money” available to lenders who repeat the process.

I'm not sure I understand how this works. If I broker a mortgage to someone else, I transfer one asset (debit) to gain another one (credit). How does that make more money?

33 posted on 11/08/2007 4:53:43 PM PST by econjack ("Wherever you go, there you are.")
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To: Texas Eagle

That house you are looking for is in Monterrey BUT the country is Mexico


34 posted on 11/08/2007 5:03:22 PM PST by pointsal (q)
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To: ErnBatavia

Everyone is at the mercy of Raising taxes. My sister lives in Lawrence Kansas where the taxes have been skyrocketing. Her husband is a professor on staff at the university of Kansas where he has been for many years.

They can’t sell their house because of the raising property values and they are getting killed by the taxes. Other than the university, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of industry to carry the financial load of infrastructure maintenance and therefore the burden falls on the home
owners.

Everytime the property values went up, the assesed valuation went up also. If the property values and/or assesed valuation didn’t go up, the tax rates were raised instead.

They bought the house in the late 60’s or early 70’s and I believe that it is probably already paid off. Their monthly tax bill is probably more than their monthly mortgage was.

The area where we are buying in Mt Dora is far enough away from Orlando that the housing prices are lower than the closer areas. We will be east of 441 and a little south of rt 46.

We will be pretty much in the country in a new subdivision and we don’t expect to have much infrastructure to worry about for a while. The new home is in a gated community and the other new construction that I’ve looked at is also in new areas.

The bigger worry is in getting home insurance, but by being a new home conforming to all the new hurricane and building codes, we will be getting a good rate on insurance.

One insurance area that I will be taking a hit in is for my car insurance. We are currently renting and have the minimal amount fo insurance because we have little or nothing to lose. With the new home, we will have to raise our coverage just to protect the home in case of a car accident and us being sued.

Most of the major insurance companies have raised their home insurance rates because of the hurricanes and some are even pulling out of florida entirely. Nationwide has stopped writing home insurance here and they seem to be discontinuing their auto insurance here also, pullinmg out of Florida completely.

My wife works as a book keeper at a local Insurance agency and they are swammped trying to find new insurance for their Nationwide customers. They are also trying to buy ‘the book’ from Nationwide to retain the right to service their current nationwide customers with another Insurance carrier before Nationwide sells those customers to another agency.


35 posted on 11/08/2007 5:12:14 PM PST by dglang
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To: Hydroshock; Travis McGee

Oh, Travis... Paging McGee...

Perfect slot for your Von Mises quote about credit expansion.

The FED can’t do anything to fix the credit crisis. It has to work through the system. The toxic paper has to find its way to balance sheets. There is no other option, except for the government to take it all off the hands of the Financials.

Of course the liquidity crisis goes on and on. The Financials still have no clue how much toxic paper they are saddle with. The confidence crisis is still the problem. Credit is tight and is not going to loosen up no matter how many inflation-spurring rate cuts Bernanke allows. Nothing but time and pain are going to unwind this credit mess, and the economy is going to have to take its hit. Then, we rebuild, maybe more responsibly than before.


36 posted on 11/08/2007 5:24:20 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: econjack

Flight to quality and safety?

Holding more as reserve requirements increase against losses and against reductions in their overall value?

Holding more for fear of taking on more bad risk? ;Who is going to buy that toxic paper from Citi or Merrill or WaMu? Who is going to loan money to Financials when nobody knows who will be solvent coming out of this mess.

I think the liquidity jam is due to lost confidence and fear. Companies don’t want the risk right now while the shell game still has a lot of this toxic paper hidden. They want all these losses out in the open before they are going to start lending masses of money to companies that may be hurt by toxic paper.


37 posted on 11/08/2007 5:30:11 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: econjack

Fueling the commodities bubble?


38 posted on 11/08/2007 5:32:47 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: cinives
Credit based on fractional reserves does not necessarily represent any asset.

Supernova, meet black hole.

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."

~~Ludwig von Mises

39 posted on 11/08/2007 5:39:44 PM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

You got it.

The usual permabull stock touts are sounding guarded lately, which equals screaming fire in a crowded theater.

These are the same guys who move Enrons from “buy” to “hold” after they have lost 90%.


40 posted on 11/08/2007 5:41:56 PM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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