Posted on 10/31/2007 12:18:43 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
The big news on Fred Thompson's site is the endorsement of Tom McClintock, a popular and conservative state senator. Nothing on Hillary's comment in the debates last night, although his immigration and border security plan is still high on the front page.
I think this is another example of Thompson's strategy of choosing to not do the things the media think he should be doing. Romney and Giuliani were quick out of the box to jump on Hillary's statement and denounce driver's licenses for illegal immigrants. Today, that'll show up in every story; the dominant story of the day is her muddy statement on licenses, and everybody, ordinarily, would want to make sure their quote is in tomorrow's story.
The downside of this approach is that Thompson is quiet for this news cycle, and as we get closer — 64 days to the Iowa caucuses! - one would think one would want a rarer lulls in news coverage...
...Eh, scratch that. No sooner than I write that then I get an e-mail from Thompson's campaign, offering a statement from campaign manager Bill Lacy on "Mitt Romney's Real Record on Immigration." Interesting. They're skipping Hillary and going straight for Romney.
Thompson campaign manager Bill Lacy today released the following statement regarding Mitt Romney's bogus immigration claims:
"Once again today, Mitt Romney is proving he will do anything and say anything for political gain. The fact is, Mitt Romney called the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill 'reasonable' while the vast majority of conservative Republicans called it 'unacceptable.' No matter how many millions he spends trying to cover up his previous positions, Romney's record is to the left of the GOP base on immigration, just as it is on matters of life, gay rights and fiscal responsibility."
The rest of the release is after the jump.
ROMNEY'S RECORD ON IMMIGRATION
In 2005, Romney said he would be "delighted" to provide support to illegal immigrants who wish to seek permanent legal status in the U.S.
· YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpUNVRNVk-E
In 2005, Romney called the McCain-Kennedy-Bush comprehensive immigration reform bill "reasonable" and defended the Senate bill. "I think that an amnesty program is one which all of the illegal immigrants who are here are now citizens and walk in and get your citizenship. What the President has proposed and what Senator McCain and Cornyn have proposed are quite different from that...those are the things that are being considered, and I think that those are reasonable proposals." (Mitt Romney Interview, The Boston Globe, 11/30/05; Liste n: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/03/16/romneys_words_grow_hard_on_immigration/)
In 2006, Romney vocally criticized fellow Republicans who stood up against the McCain-Kennedy-Bush amnesty bill and said they made "a big mistake." "...one of McCain's potential rivals for the GOP nomination, Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, has made it known that he supports the President's immigration position, saying that Republicans who have broken rank with Bush 'made a big mistake.'" (Liz Sidoti, "McCain May Alienate Some Conservatives," The Associated Press, 9/20/06)
In 2006, Romney said that some illegal immigrants in the U.S. "should begin a process towards application for citizenship." "Gov. Mitt Romney expressed support...for an immigration program that places large numbers of illegal residents on the path toward citizenship...Romney said illegal immigrants should have a chance to obtain citizenship. '...those that are here paying taxes and not taking government benefits should begin a process towards application for citizenship, as they would from their home country.'" (Evan Lehman, "Romney Supports Immigration Program, But Not Granting 'Amnesty,'" The Lowell Sun, 3/30/06)
As Governor, Romney allowed three sanctuary cities to operate in Massachusetts: Cambridge, Orleans, and Brewster. (Yvonne Abraham, "City's Sanctuary Status Mocked," Boston Globe, 7/5/06; Lisa M. Seghetti et.al., "Enforcing Immigration Law: The Role of State and Local Law Enforcement," Congressional Research Service, RL32270, 11/14/06; Town Resolution, http://www.bordc.org/detail.php?id=197, accessed 10/1/07)
FRED THOMPSON'S RECORD: Consistently Voted To Secure Our Border
ü Supported The "Illegal Immigration Reform And Immigrant Responsibility Act Of 1996."
o Improved border control, facilitation of legal entry and interior enforcement
o Enhanced enforcement and penalties against alien smuggling and document fraud;
o Inspection, apprehension, detention, adjudication, and removal provisions for inadmissible and deportable aliens;
o Enforcement of restrictions against employment;
o Restrictions on benefits for aliens.
(H.R. 3610, Roll Call Vote #200, Bill Passed 72-27: R 50-3; D 22-24, 7/18/96, Thompson Voted Yea)
ü Voted For "The Immigration Control And Financial Responsibility Act Of 1996" As Part Of The Senate Judiciary Committee And On The Senate Floor.
o The legislation increased enforcement of laws against illegal immigration and eliminated incentives for legal immigrants to come to the United States and obtain welfare benefits.
o Increased authorization of funding for enforcement personnel and facilities
o Development of a system to verify eligibility to work and receive public assistance
o Strengthened existing employment-verification procedures, including (1) social security account information; (2) types of acceptable documents; (3) birth certificates; and (4) driver's licenses.
o Authorized INS wiretaps for alien smuggling investigations
(S. 1664, Roll Call Vote #107, Cloture Motion Passed 100-0, 5/2/96, Thompson Voted Yea).
ü Voted To End Chain Migration And The Visa Lottery In Senate Judiciary Committee, And For The Construction Of A Border Fence Near San Diego. (S. 1664, Judiciary Committee, Committee Report, 4/10/96 )
ü Was One Of Only 20 Senators To Vote To Repeal The Ban On The Search Of Open Fields By INS Officials. (S. 1664, Roll Call Vote #80, Amendment Rejected 20-79: R 9-44; D 11-35, 4/24/96, Thompson Voted Yea)
ü Voted For "The Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act of 2001."
o Authorized 400 additional inspectors, investigators, and other staff on the INS over the next five years
o Strengthened the requirements that all commercial passenger ships and airplanes entering the United States provide a list of passengers and crew before arrival
o Provided for an entry-exit system in which visa holders are checked with a biometric identifier when he/she enters and leaves the country
(H.R. 3525, Roll Call Vote #75, Agreed To 97-0, 4/18/02, Thompson Voted Yea).
“...Eh, scratch that. No sooner than I write that then I get an e-mail from Thompson’s campaign, offering a statement from campaign manager Bill Lacy on “Mitt Romney’s Real Record on Immigration.” Interesting. They’re skipping Hillary and going straight for Romney.”
Nomination first, tackle “Das Beast” in the general.
Just a guess, but I suspect this is based on that stuff that GOA posted on their website. If you've not seen it, they pored over Fred's Senate votes and found convoluted "connections" between votes on non-2nd Amendment-related topics and the "anti-gun agenda". Oh, and they didn't bother to put any other candidate's legislative record under the microscope for sake of comparison. Shameless and disingenuous beyond words.
If it's anything other than that, I have yet to see anything about it.
Since Charleton Heston was OK with Fred, Fred is OK with me.
Someone cue of the picture of the two of them with shotguns -— at the Fred Thompson Charity shooting competition.
If Fred is so pro immigration enforcement, etc. why did he make these votes? And don’t give me the same excuse I got last time....”OMG! Numbersusa got something wrong once!”....It’s in all of Fred’s voting records, which you conveniently left out.
FRED THOMPSON ON IMMIGRATION
Voted in 1996 to continue chain migration
Voted to strip legal reforms from 1996 bill (but’s he’s bragging about voting for it...snicker.....)
Voted in favor of chain migration in 1996
oted for a foreign worker bill with no anti-fraud measures in 2000.
As Committee member, produced H-1B doubling bill in 1998
Voted in committee against including worker safeguards in H-1B bill in 1998
Voted to allow firms to lay off Americans to make room for foreign workers in 1998
Voted to grant amnesty to nearly one million illegal aliens from Nicaragua and Cuba in 1997
In 1996, removed higher fines for businesses which hire illegal aliens
Tried to kill voluntary pilot programs for workplace verification in 1996
http://profiles.numbersusa.com/improfile.php3?DistSend=TN&VIPID=743
Your turf. :p
I heartily agree. As long as Clinton’s statements are on video or audio tape, there’s plenty of time between the convention and the general to trot them out and craft ads as devastating as the put down of Michael Moore.
Is there a tape of her saying “I have thousands of ideas, America can’t afford them all?”
I can just imagine a spot with Fred laconically laying out a conservative program of minimal government, defense of the borders, strong national defense, and lower taxes, ending with something like: “As for my opponent. . .” a little window in the bottom right corner of the screen showing a video of Hillary saying that, then “I don’t think American can afford any of them,” a brief reiteration of some point made earlier, and some standard ‘thanks for listening, I’d appreciate your vote’ formula.
When Thompson was in the Senate immigration and border enforcement weren’t national security issues, except in the minds of nativists. 9/11 changed that.
I suspect you *are* nativist, otherwise you wouldn’t consider pro-business adjustments to the H1-B visa program as evidence of not favoring immigration enforcement: the government can adjust its legal immigration program any way that makes it into law, and that has nothing to do with how strictly or laxly laws are enforced.
Fred weak on guns? Not even close!
Fred is solid as a rock on the 2nd Amendment.
When Fred ran for the Senate Charlton Heston personally went to Tenn to campaign for him.
Yawn. Thompson campaign recycling anti-Romney hit points that were spread by anti-Romney folks 6 months ago here on FR. Not original. And being inaccurate about it too, such as "Romney's record is to the left of the GOP base on immigration" when he vetoed instate tuition for illegal aliens.
Indeed it would be better if they thought or commented about Hillary.
You hadn't realized it because it is a distortion. It would be like calling Fred Thompson pro-abortion because of the comments he made in 1994 reported in a newspaper that could be twisted to infer that. Both lines of attack are equally without merit.
http://www.freerepublic.com/~Unmarkedpackage/#immigration
Romney’s record on immigration issues as Governor is solid.
Governor Romney opposed a bill that would have allowed illegal aliens to get driver’s licenses. “Those who are here illegally should not receive tacit support from our government that gives an indication of legitimacy,” the governor said, echoing arguments that opponents have voiced in the Commonwealth and in other states considering similar license measures. “If they are here illegally, they should not get driver’s licenses,” he said.
(Scott S. Greenberger, “Romney Stand Dims Chances Of License For Undocumented,” The Boston Globe, 10/28/03)
Romney vetoed a bill in 2004 that would have permitted illegal aliens to pay the same in-state tuition rate paid by Massachusetts citizens at public colleges and universities in the state.
(Office Of The Governor, “Romney Signs $22.402B Fiscal Year 2005 ‘No New Tax’ Budget,” Press Release, 6/25/04)
Romney arranged a federal and state agreement enabling Massachusetts State Troopers to investigate immigration status and arrest illegal aliens they encounter during the normal course of their duties.
(Troopers would arrest immigrants, Boston Globe, 6/21/2006) • (Governor Romney, ICE Sign Immigration Enforcement Pact, 12/13/2006) • (Video: Maricopa County Sheriff Arpaio debates LULAC spokesman about MA pact with ICE)
Governor Romney fought efforts to weaken Massachusetts’ English Immersion Law. “But yesterday, Romney press secretary Shawn Feddeman said the governor will fight all attempts to slow the implementation of English immersion, known on the ballot as Question 2. ...He will veto anything that weakens or delays English immersion, Feddeman said.”
(Anand Vaishnav, “Romney Firm On English Timetable,” The Boston Globe, 1/24/03)
Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio was named as Honorary Chair for the Romney for President campaign in Arizona. Sheriff Arpaio, better known as “America’s Toughest Sheriff”, has gained a nationwide reputation for his tough stance on crime, illegal immigration and border security in the nation’s fourth largest county.
“I like him,” Arpaio said of Mitt Romney. “He’s a man of principle, of good character. He did a great job in Massachusetts and I feel he’s going to make a great president.”
“I’m sure the governor believes in my philosophy too,” Arpaio said. “He sure would not be asking for my endorsement if he didn’t believe in what I’m doing.”
(Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio Tells FOX News Why Mitt Romney Picked Him for Presidential Campaign, Fox News, Feb. 28, 2007)
It is really petty for Thompson to go after Romney, but understandable also in that Romney’s position on immigration is not far from Fred Thompson’s. Romney has consistently opposes amnesty and opposed the bills that contained amnesty. Thompson wants to make it seem that they are different when they really are not.
http://www.freerepublic.com/~Unmarkedpackage/#immigration
Governor Romney proposes an immigration plan with the following features:
1. Secure The Border. Follow through on Congressional commitment to build a physical and technological fence along the southern border, and secure other points of entry. Romney strongly supports a wall, fence or other effective restraint along the U.S.-Mexico border.
(Romney calls for border barrier, The Dallas Morning News, April 12, 2007)
2. Implement An Enforceable Employer Verification System. Issue a biometrically-enabled and tamperproof card to non-citizens and create a national database for non-citizens so employers can easily verify their legal status in this country. Employers that hire workers without the proper credentials are subject to fines and penalties.
3. Reject Amnesty. No special privilege or special pathway to citizenship or permanent residency for those here illegally. People who are here illegally should not get any benefit by being here and should go to the back of the line behind all those who have applied for citizenship. People here illegally should return to their home countries under a reasonable attrition program and be replaced in the work force with U.S. citizens and legal immigrants. For the 12+ million illegal aliens in the country now, Romney favors immediate deportation of convicted criminal illegal aliens and deportation of illegal aliens who refuse to get off public welfare assistance. For the remaining illegal aliens already in the country, Romney would support offering a temporary work visa which includes biometric identification data. The temporary work visa would be required to remain in the country and employed and would not be renewable. The illegal aliens who decide to stay and apply for the temporary work visa must return to their home country after the term of the temporary visa expires (for example, 6 months). They would be eligible to apply for U.S. citizenship from their home country and would enter the process at the back of the line behind all other applicants.
4. Punish Sanctuary Cities. Cut back federal funding to cities that are “sanctuaries” for illegal immigrants and refuse to comply with federal law or aid federal law enforcement.
(Read more in Romney Record: Governor Romney On Ending Sanctuary City Policies)
5. Improve Interior Enforcement. Provide resources to enforce immigration laws throughout the nation, and crackdown on employers who continue to hire illegals with stiffer fines and penalties.
6. Encourage Legal Immigration. Streamline the system to recruit and retain skilled workers and welcome the best and the brightest from around the world to our universities.
Watch the video of Mitt Romney discussing his immigration plans during a townhall meeting in New Hampshire.
Governor Romney Says Cities That Do Not Enforce Federal Immigration Laws Should Not Receive Federal Funds. Governor Romney: “When I hear that there are cities that say ‘Hey guess what? We’re going to become sanctuary cities for illegal aliens. We’re going to instruct our city workers that they’re not going to be notifying the federal government of people who are here illegally’ and then those same cities ask for millions, if not billions of dollars from the Federal Government. It’s like wait a second, we’re not going to send you all of the money that you want if you are not going to be willing to enforce and live by the laws of the government.”
(WRKO’s “Howie Carr Show,” 8/3/07)
Governor Romney strongly opposes the McCain-Kennedy approach to immigration reform or other amnesty measures offering benefits to those in the country illegally.
Governor Romney: “I strongly oppose today’s bill going through the Senate. It is the wrong approach. Any legislation that allows illegal immigrants to stay in the country indefinitely, as the new ‘Z-Visa’ does, is a form of amnesty. That is unfair to the millions of people who have applied to legally immigrate to the U.S.”
“Today’s Senate agreement falls short of the actions needed to both solve our country’s illegal immigration problem and also strengthen our legal immigration system. Border security and a reliable employment verification system must be our first priority.”
(Governor Mitt Romney On The Senate Immigration Agreement, May 17, 2007)
Governor Romney: “McCain-Kennedy isn’t the answer. As governor, I took a very different approach. I authorized our state police to enforce immigration laws. I vetoed a tuition break for illegals and said no to driver’s licenses. McCain-Kennedy gives benefits to illegals that would cost taxpayers millions. And more importantly, amnesty didn’t work 20 years ago, and it won’t work today.”
(CPAC 2007 Speech, March 2, 2007)
Governor Romney: “The immigration bill failed because the politicians in Washington are out of touch with the American people. The voice of the people is loud and clear - secure the border, enforce the law and no special deal for permanent residency or citizenship for illegals. America will always welcome legal immigration, but as a nation we also insist on the rule of law.”
(Governor Romney On Today’s Senate Immigration Vote, June 28, 2007)
Agreed. It’s primary time right now.
They do not want to be wrong and I can't believe the folks in Iowa will fall for the Romney shtick. Fred will come on strong when it is time. Right now, a great many people are just beginning to really pay attention. The folks in Iowa can't be fooled by this type of politics.
Fred Thompson is still my candidate, 100%.
Why fight the Hillary battle before you have won any ground for the fight? Until you win the nomination, anything you take away form her doesn’t help you as much as it helps her Dem opponents.
If Hillary is the fight we ultimately want (and I think it is) then we need to let her side go thru the process. Why take her out now? Missourians saw the folly of getting involved in a Democrat primary 4 years ago when a weakened Dem governor was taken out, by his Dem challenger with Republican crossover support in the primary. Although she eventually lost, this resulted in a much more difficult race than it needed to be and set up her up to eventually take on and beat Senator Jim Talent in another close race.
Don't hire them...don't rent to them...they will eventually give up and go home. If they want the rights they demand...they must come here legally. Fred will fight for Americans on this one...watch and see. He will clean the floor with the rest of them.
I lost a lot of respect for the GOA after I actually went to the original source to verify their information. Below is my run-down, with links to the senate votes so you can verify my post if you're interested (since there's no reason for you to trust ME, either - :)). Between this and Numbers USA, I'm taking the time to verify everything myself with the raw thomas.gov documentation. I apologize in advance for this post's length.
The most egregious problem in GOA's report on Thompson was their report on Thompson's vote on gunpowder taggants. The Kerry gunpowder taggant amendment that Thompson voted on was a vote to table, i.e., kill the amendment. That is a pro-gun vote -- but until recently, they reported that his vote was in favor of gunpowder taggants. I just discovered they've updated it, which is fine -- but according to the Internet Wayback Machine, GOA was spreading wrong and very damning information for at least four months. Considering the stakes here, it's shameful that GOA was so negligent on such an important issue, and it calls into question their reliability on everything else. Here is a link to the actual vote, followed by a link to GOA's original bad information:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=104&session=2&vote=00287
http://web.archive.org/web/20070701133707/http://gunowners.org/pres08/thompson2.htm
----------------
The second most egregious fault in the GOA ranking is where they ranked Thompson pro-gun for his vote on the Hatch-Craig "gun control lite" bill (footnote 25), but then several lines later ranked him anti-gun for "adopting the 'gun control lite' strategy" (footnote 29). GOA also says in the introductory remarks that Thompson voted for and against "gun control lite" at different points. But what he actually did was vote to allow discussion of the Hatch-Craig bill to go forward ( http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=106&session=1&vote=00117), and then voted against the bill itself ( http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=106&session=1&vote=00118). It is bordering on dishonest to call this chain of events "adopting the gun control lite strategy," especially when these two items were not presented together in context -- and in the introduction are presented as equally weighted and haphazard "for" and "against" votes.
But, for the sake of argument, let's say that GOA considers the mere act of voting to let discussion go forward on item x tantamount to "adopting the 'item x' strategy," even if the candidate then votes against item x. If that's the GOA standard, then certainly they should have called Duncan Hunter and Dr. Paul to task for voting to allow discussion to go foward on the post-Columbine anti-gun juvenile crime bill, and even worse, the mandatory gun show background check bill (I discuss both of these in more detail later in this post):
H RES 209 YEA-AND-NAY 16-Jun-1999 12:18 PM
QUESTION: On Agreeing to the Resolution
BILL TITLE: Providing for consideration of H.R. 1501, Consequences for Juvenile Offenders Act, and H.R. 2122, Mandatory Gun Show Background Check Act
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1999/roll210.xml
But they did not give Hunter and Dr. Paul anti-gun ratings for that vote. Dr. Paul then voted against the above bills (an identical situation to Thompson's votes related to "gun control lite"). But Hunter was worse -- Hunter then voted in favor of the Mandatory Gun Show Background Check Act (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1999/roll244.xml)!
So, Thompson fought hard against new regulations on gun shows; Hunter voted for mandatory gun show background checks. Yet GOA wrote a glowing page about Hunter, mentioned that he was a personal friend of the author, and omitted to mention or rank any of his votes.
In fact, most of the gun-related provisions on which GOA ranked Thompson "anti-gun," Hunter voted for as well (in either identical or similar versions of the related house bills). I have the list from Thomas.gov -- this post is getting long but I am happy to post them if you're interested.
-------------------------
A misleading item in GOA's ranking was their anti-gun ranking of Thompson for "gutting of the Smith “Anti-Brady” Amendment" (footnote 14). As GOA notes, Thompson voted for the original pro-gun Smith Anti-Brady Bill amendment as part of an omnibus bill making appropriations for Departments of Commerce, Justice, State, and the Judiciary for FY99. The House/Senate conference (which Thompson was not part of), weakened the Smith amendment. The senate then passed the conference bill 99-0. We don't know how Hunter and Dr. Paul voted, because the conference bill passed in the House by voice vote.
On one hand, candidates must be held accountable for everything they vote for -- so I don't give Thompson a complete pass here. On the other hand, if I were objectively editing the ranking, I would include the fact that the vote was part of a amjor omnibus bill that passed unanimously in body of the ranking, rather than burying it in the footnotes (especially because Thompson is on record as voting for the original, stronger version of the amendment.
------------------------
Finally, an overall misleading mix of omission and double-standard is GOA's handling of Thompson's votes on the juvenile justice bill, S. 254. I consider this the most telling bill of all the gun legislation that came up during Thompson's time in the senate, because it was passed in the wake of the Columbine massacre when there was tremendous pressure on Congress to "just do something."
This is where Thompson's pro-gun credentials impressed me the most. Thompson was one of the leaders in fighting against the bill when it first came through the senate, and was one of only 25 senators to vote against it. He argued vehemently against it on the senate floor, and noted that the government shouldn't pass a bad bill just because there was a tragedy in Colorado. He voted sometimes in tiny minorities against a huge raft of bad amendments that various gun-grabbers attached to the bill (I have the entire list if you're interested -- it's very telling). These facts don't come through in the ranking itself or in the introductory discussion.
When it got back to the senate from the house, he voted to let it go to conference and as far as I can tell, it died in conference.
GOA gives Thompson two separate rankings: one anti-gun for allowing discussion of the bill to go forward (footnote 20), and one pro-gun for voting against the bill (footnote 23). However, in the first case they say he "ended the filibuster of a major anti-gun crime bill' and in the second they say he had a pro-gun vote on an "anti-gun juvenile crime bill." They don't connect the two to make clear that he voted to allow discussion to go forward on the bill, but was one of the leaders in the senate fighting against the actual bill. This is an editor's quibble -- but a bigger problem, as discussed above, they do not rank other candidates for doing the same on worse bills.
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