Posted on 10/21/2007 8:35:38 PM PDT by jellybean
Everybody Was Good; Fred, Rudy, and Huck Were Best Wow. By far, the best debate of the cycle in either party. Just about everybody came out swinging, took some lumps, countered, made the crowd laugh, spurred applause, and jabbed at the moderators. The crowd was fired up, and the moderators took an aggressive tack that shook any lingering lethargy out of the candidates. Feel confident, Republicans. One way or another, the GOP is going to have a good debater representing it next year.
Winner or winners? Tough to call, because I think we saw just about every candidate at their best tonight, even the no-hopers like Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo. So I’ll classify the participants a bit differently this evening:
Helped Themselves a Lot Tonight:
Fred Thompson: Frankly, he needed it. He really should have gotten a bigger chunk of the vote at the Family Research Council summit straw poll, and let’s face it, we had been waiting for any speech, any debate appearance, any event with Thompson to be a “wow, that was fantastic.” Well, tonight was that moment we’ve been waiting for, maybe none better than his answer to Wendell Goler’s question/accusation of laziness. His answer on the lobbying for the abortion group was strong, too – ‘look at my votes, and the pro-choice folks I worked for are pulling this out now because they fear me.’ Finally – finally! – we’re seeing what we wanted to see in Thompson – homespun, able to make his case simply, directly, and clearly, and with a bit of humor here and there.
Rudy Giuliani: The first time I thought Rudy Giuliani could be president was at his 2004 convention speech, where he hit all kinds of emotional notes just right. Similar performance tonight – maybe heavy on laughs - but it worked. Pugnacious, quick thinker on his feet, engaging. And, as usual, if you lead the polls, and nobody walks out of a debate talking about your gaffes or bad answers (and other than a slightly weird joke about not being sure that he didn’t accidentally perform a gay marriage, Rudy didn’t have many bad moments) you won. Rudy won’t lose ground; this is a candidate and a campaign hitting all cylanders at just the right time. He took some shots, but the attacks were probably old news to those following the race day in, day out.
Mike Huckabee: After the FRC summit, he’s the social conservative choice, and if he gets the nomination, Hillary won’t know what hit her. This guy can sell ice to Eskimos. Kept his momentum, and played against his "the funny one" typecasting with his argument, "there's nothing funny about Hillary Clinton as Commander in Chief."
Probably Helped Themselves a Little Tonight:
John McCain: Some great lines, and once again, a candidate felt the need to salute McCain’s service in the miltiary as well as in the Senate. We’ll see if this performance does him good in the polls – he did a great speech at the FRC, and it got him nowhere. I think the aspect I liked most was that he could jab at his rivals, but it never seemed too nasty or cranky. He’s got stature. He’s a well-established brand name, and I wonder if he’s turning into everyone’s second or third choice.
Mitt Romney: One of his strongest performances, but it seemed like somebody put a “kick me” sign on his back right before he went on. On the other hand, it’s a sign of where he is in the race that Thompson, Giuliani, and McCain see value in attacking him at this moment. Kathryn said he could have used the PowerPoint slides on one answer. But great jabs at Hillary, and seemed to feed off the crowd's energy.
Oh, and I vote for the mussed-up hair.
Thanks For Playing: Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, and Ron Paul. Come back when you’re at ten percent in one of the early primary states or a national poll.
UPDATE: In my e-mailbox, every campaign thinks their guy won. I know this will come as a great surprise to you. I pledge, any campaign that sends me an e-mail: "EXPERTS AGREE: OUR GUY LOST, BIG-TIME; PUNDITS CALL PERFORMANCE 'CATASTROPHIC' AND 'EMBARRASSING" I will print in this space in its entirety.
You can add Trent Lott to that list!
By the way, last debate showed that Huckabee won and Romney lost. Huckabee does seem to be getting a bit more attention lately.
I understand your sentiment and I am not a Rudy Man. However, if I must vote for Rudy or Hillary, I will hold my nose and vote for Rudy. I will probably then go home and take a bath and have several large drinks. :(
Just remember, a no-vote in the general election is a vote for the opposition. There will be a lot of nose-less faces here after the election.
zero sum game.
I see.
I also see how that is chicken feed to a manipulator in the big boy league. They can play those zero sum games and still come out just fine.
God, we NEED John Bolton! Maybe Thompson/Bolton? (Fear THIS, mockmood!)
Does Intrade cover primarily the bets of Americans? Or does it reflect mostly foreign bets on the US election now? I’m still confused about the whole online gambling thing...
Giuliani Adviser's '74 Gun Charge; [NASSAU AND SUFFOLK Edition]
By Richard Esposito. George E. Jordan contributed to. Newsday. (Combined editions). Long Island, N.Y.: Oct 23, 1989. pg. 07
Abstract (Document Summary)
[Roger Ailes]' arrest and plea of guilty to a reduced charge was acknowledged yesterday by deputy campaign manager Ken Caruso. Caruso said that Ailes told him that the small-caliber handgun was inside a belt of camera equipment that Ailes apparently had not unpacked since returning from an African safari.
Ailes could not be reached for comment. "My understanding is that Ailes was over in Africa doing a documentary with Bobby Kennedy Jr. and was carrying a gun over there for protection," Caruso said. "He came back to the United States and had this gun in his film equipment, and went out in Central Park." Caruso said Ailes took the equipment belt out and strapped it around his waist, unaware that the gun was still in it.
Caruso, who was told in a telephone interview of the latest disclosures about a [Dinkins] aide, said the difference between Ailes' offense and those of [James Bell] and other Dinkins aides and volunteers was that Ailes made a mistake and accidentally broke the law.
It was great to hear Rudy talk about supporting school choice, especially for religious schools and home schoolers.
Romney turns me off. . he looks and talks like the New Car Sales Manager at a Toyota Dealership.
Huckaby will never be able to compete on the East and West Coasts. The Democrats will be holding the House and Senate, should we also hand them the Presidency and the Supreme Court??
Tancredo and Duncan Hunter are there only to soothe their egos. They have no chance to win the nomination.
Thompson doesn’t have the ability to light up the room like Rudy and Mitt . . it looks a little bit past his bed time.
McCain . . nice guy . .but is going no where. Ron Paul is kind of like my eccentric Uncle , whom I like. He is good for comic relief.
Bottom Line: Tancredo and Duncan Hunter , time to bow out gracefully.
As far as I can see, there’s been no evidence of that kind of manipulation. Your example of Ron Paul would be exactly the kind of situation where it would show up.
It works by people putting their money on it.
And on the flip side, being a mayor or a Northeastern governor gives you little or no foreign policy experience. Our senate and house candidates have been studying and making decisions on military and foreign policy issues for years. Governors and mayors are almost entirely untested in that area (except for the state National Guard, in the case of governors).
If we’re rating them on entertainment and comedic value I’d have to agree with the author. I guess that’s the best we can expect from the electorate. The great unwashed won’t see the elections much differently than it does American Idol.
I didn’t know that — thanks for the info! I agree, he does get big points for that.
I don’t know.
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Rudy Giuliani to win 2008 US Presidential Election
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I’m not a McCain supporter, but tonight his comment about Hillary’s earmark - $1 million for a Woodstock museum - was a real winner.
McCain was talking about stopping Hillary’s earmark, and then he commented, “I didn’t attend Woodstock .. I was tied up at the time.” I loved it when the audience caught on to what McCain meant - he was tied up - in a prison in Vietnam.
Mathematically, no. A vote for the donks deprives the GOP of 1 vote and gives the donks 1 vote. A third-party vote (or a non-vote) deprives both the donks and the GOP of 1 vote.
Having said that, I'll take issue with you on this:
I could also add my concern about his admitted work on the McCain-Feingold incumbent security bill, his work against tort reform legislation and his lack of executive experience.
Fred's support of McCain/Feingold has always been based on the vast amounts of money influencing the candidates. He fought more for raising the limits on hard money which he saw as the legitimate money going to fund campaigns. Here is his speech on campaign finance reform March 27, 2001. If you haven't read it, you should.
As far as tort reform, Fred answered that tonight. He supported tort reform when it involved federal issues (inter state commerce, product liablity), but doesn't think the federal government should dictate to the states what their laws should be regarding tort reform. Giuliani mentioned Texas' cap on lawsuits...Fred supports that.
Oh, BOY! We need a three-dimensional modeling tool like the ones that model molecules, to plot all these intertwined connections.
You are the Queen of Giuliani archeaology. :)
FYI: The “value voters” conference ended yesterday in Washington, DC. This debate was in FLorida. Diferent audience altogether. Huckabee won the “value voters” straw poll.
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