Posted on 10/20/2007 3:02:59 PM PDT by lizol
A deeper look into Polands visa problems
By Roy Nasstrom | Guest view
Stewart Shaws mention of the visa requirement for ordinary Polish visitors to the United States deserves attention. Although the visa issue has not received much attention in most of the American media, Congress and the White House have taken it very seriously.
It does seem unfair to exclude Poland from the visa waiver program. This program allows citizens to enter the United States for a visit with only a passport and without subjection to sometimes humiliating questions that must be answered when applying for a visa. All the nations of western Europe benefit from the program. Nevertheless, with the exception of Slovenia, no former Communist nation of central and eastern Europe is in the program.
Nominally, inclusion requires governmental stability and competent treatment of immigration and emigration policies. Rejection from the program is automatic if more than a limited number of visa applicants in the past have been rejected for various reasons, including arrests, serious illness or activities to be judged by consular officials potentially harmful to the United States.
The Bush administration has been trying to get the rule modified to allow nations such as Poland to secure waivers, but Congress has not agreed. A couple of months ago, legislation reduced restrictions somewhat. But the legislation included a clause presented by Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein that rejected a countrys entry to the program if more than 10 percent of its visa applicants had been rejected. Polands 25 to 35 percent rejection rate prevents it from getting into the program, although several other countries could be accepted under the rule.
Why should Poland have such a high rate of rejection?
In the early 2000s, the latest period for which I have data, Estonia, Hungary and the Czech Republic had higher crime rates (low by western European standards) than Polands. But their visa rejection rate is low enough to make their prospects for entry into the Visa Waiver Program far better than Polands. Definitions of crime and statistical techniques vary considerably among countries, making precise comparisons difficult, but the figures do arouse curiosity.
Some observers have suggested that, unlike other countries, Poland simply has not actively discouraged visa applications from people likely to be refused. There is no doubt, however, that Poland does have a fairly high unemployment rate by International Labor Organization data 19 percent three years ago, significant even for Eastern Europe.
But how relevant to American well-being is the restriction to Poland and a few other countries in central and eastern Europe? Feinstein has said that our immigration policy was the soft underbelly of national security, and many in Congress agree with her.
Some want to end waivers for all countries. Moreover, an economic issue is important to many legislators. They fear that once in, some visa-holding immigrants would get jobs and stay illegally. Immigrants are a panic-button issue in many places.
Those opposed to restrictions have argued simply that it is not fair to exclude some countries of the European Union, but not others. They point also to the number of Americans with Polish relatives. They have noted that most of eastern Europe is no more likely in the case of Poland, less likely to be a conduit for Islamic terrorists than western European countries, especially those whose immigrants from former colonies cannot be limited.
In terms of illegal employment, supporters of visa exclusion have noted that Poland has become far better off economically than old statistics data indicate, thus lessening workers wishes to search for jobs in the United States.
Perhaps most important, supporters of Polands inclusion view the country as a vital component of U.S. relations with Europe, especially since the acceptance of former Communist countries into the European Union. They argue that Polands influence in eastern and central Europe, always large, is growing, and that its support of the United States is vital to American interests.
Although the issue of waivers is highly political, so far it is not a partisan issue.
Geographic location, concepts of terrorism and composition of constituencies and financial supporters play a more important role in determining legislators attitudes than political affiliation. Democrats and Republicans stand on both sides of the issue. Illinois Reps. John Shimkus, a Republican, and Rahm Emanuel, a Democrat, have jointly authored legislation to end the restriction in the current law.
Sure, a lot of Poles have left their country to find jobs. Does that make them undesirable?
Dianne Feinstein supports Mexican illegals coming here for cheap jobs, but evidently opposes Poles emmigrating to America, although the crime rate in Poland is surely much lower than in Mexico, and the education is far better.
Who would we rather have, a hard-working, well educated Pole who wants to come to America and find a future, or a Mexican criminal who has 3 DUI offenses on his record, collects welfare, and illegally votes for the Democrats?
Don’t ask.
The reason why the congress is blocking this is not because the eastern block counties high crime rate, the Poles are conservatives. They are hard workers, they come here not with thier hand out but with thier work clothes on ready to go to work! Dems need people who are dependent upon them. Illegals in this country which the dems are falling over each other to coddle and encourage have raped, and murdererd American citizens, and do we here anything form them on this? NO! Pathetic, spineless, hypocrites! Get your voting shoes on America lets clean house! Lets rid ourselves of this cancer called liberalism and all its tumors!
Does anyone know what these "humiliating questions" might be?
Not that I'm opposed to Polish visitors and/or immigrants. I just can't think of any humiliating questions, just humiliating answers, and that's not our fault.
However,Poland must realize that illegal immigration is a serious problem in the US.As I think I told you recently,lizol,I spent a few days in Ireland last June and was surprised by how many workers from Poland and other new EU member states I saw at the hotels we stayed at.And as I told you they were all very polite,friendly,efficient and spoke English very well.
My understanding is that Poles are allowed to live and work,with few if any restrictions,in the UK as well as Ireland. I would think that that fact would minimize the chances that a Pole might come to the US and overstay his or her visa.If my assumptions and conclusions are correct I see no reason why Poland shouldn't be included in a system which places minimum restrictions on short visits for her citizens.
I'd take the Polish person every time.
I find this pretty humiliating.
The French, or Brits, or Germans don’t have to do that. Even if their name is - let’s say - Muhammad Atta.
You know - it’s a kind of a vicious circle. The Poles can’t be included into the visa waiver program, because of the high number, of visa applications being rejected - because the U.S. consulate clerks think, that many applicants want to stay in USA illegally.
Which is actually pointless, as they could go to Ireland or UK, or Sweden, or somewhere else within the EU - to work legally, for equally decent money, closer to Poland and without being afraid of deportation etc.
Seems some friends of both Boxer and Feinstein were ripped off by Polish Gypsies.
And frankly, these particular Gypsies are a crime wave in themselves.
Of course our government won’t/can’t hammer just them, so everyone pays for it.
Good grief! Poland is our ally.
Look at all the H1b visas, a good number go to Pakistan, they’d be more likely “the soft underbelly of national security,” not Poland. This is a shame.
It makes no sense and we need to start hollering about it!
The Poles are more capable and more willing to assimilate. The amigos just want to subject us to their third world cesspool culture while they rip off all they can.
I can think of at least one American prosecutor and several American politicians who might be embarrassed by some of those questions. Can't name any judges off the top of my head but there are some.
I'm sure that they can figure out that the only purpose of those questions is to give a legal crowbar to remove them from the country if it turns out they lied.
I find this pretty humiliating.
I'd be proud to answer no to those questions.
The French, or Brits, or Germans dont have to do that. Even if their name is - lets say - Muhammad Atta.
I thought I made it clear that it was the characterizing the questions as humiliating that I objected to, not dropping the requirement for the Polish.
As to Poland, my experiences with Polish workers and Polish people in general has been exceedingly positive. In the great scheme of things, we could do worse than to end up with a few of them over-staying their visas.
Why are dims oppposed to freeing up visas for Poles that would likely result in many more Poles becoming illegal immigrants in the U.S., while they do all they can to encourage Mexicans to come?
Mexicans will vote Dim, Poles probably won’t.
Why not pushing the European immigration policy away from the member nations to Brussels? If a European visa i.e. would be necessary for Americans who want to enter Europe, the US administration should think about giving all EU members access to the visa-waiver program in return for maintaining their visa-free access to Europe.
It is easy to ignore some countries in eastern Europe, but it would be a disaster for any US administration if their compatriots have to pay -let's say- a 100$ fee and get a 25% chance to be rejected if they want to enter Europe in general.
I hope that I am not zotted because of this orgy of anti-Americanism. ;)
I agree with the poster who said that the folks who are having the problem with visa (from Poland but could be those from the countries listed at the link above) are hardworking. Congress doesn't like that idea; they only want sheep who want congress to give them benefits paid for by US taxpayers. No thinking, hard workers allowed.
USA sold out Eastern Europe once before. Still the same old story.
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