Poland Ukraine's best friend

Polish Radio External Service ^ | 19.10.2007

[lizol]

Poland Ukraine's best friend

19.10.2007

Poland is Ukraine’s best friend . 48% of the respondents to a poll staged in Ukraine are convinced that Poland and Ukraine are linked with very friendly ties. Still 45% of the respondents consider Russia as the best neighbor, at the same time Moscow is also mentioned as the worst enemy of Ukraine, as are the USA, Germany, Belarus and Iraq.

[Gay State Conservative]

Germany is certainly capable of stabbing any freedom loving
nation in the back,as is Russia (actually,Russia is strongly inclined to do so) but hopefully Ukrainians will come to understand that the US is prepared to show great friendship to responsible democratic nations.

[crazyhorse691]

Iraq? I can understand Russia, Germany, Belarus, and the USA. But Iraq beating out Israel is kinda astonishing.

[tired1]

i’ve traveled throughout Ukraine and found almost all of them have a pro US attitude, especially in regards to the war in Iraq. i even met a guy who served with US troops in Afganistan.

[elcid1970]

Except, isn’t it true that

Western Ukraine = Catholic and pro-Western

Eastern Ukraine = Orthodox and pro-Russian

(Just asking, pozhalyusta brat)

[tired1]

what you say is correct but it’s more complicated. one important thing to keep in mind is that Beslan really pissed them off, they empathize with our war on islam.

imo, the east/west thing is a result of the massive corruption which is clearly evident. some folks think they’ll get some crumbs from russia, while others (in the west) see more prosperity to be had by joining the EU.

one thing that i found interesting is how absolutely clueless some of the folks were about how economies function, this being a result of decades of living in a socialist state.

[Grzegorz 246]

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[Atlantic Bridge]

Germany is certainly capable of stabbing any freedom loving nation in the back,as is Russia

BuHuHaHa!

[Gay State Conservative]

BuHuHaHa!

Does that mean you agree or disagree?

[Atlantic Bridge]

I disagree. Due to numerous American denazification programs in the last century Germany is that political correct that it hurts sometimes. At least we Germans are not able to stab another nation into the back anymore. Maybe we buy them but we will not stab them into the back for sure.

The worst thing we can do is to send our gay and leftist green politicians to “invade” Poland and the Ukraine. This is our newest form of “Blitzkrieg” with the positive side effect that we get rid of those dumbasses. ;)

[Gay State Conservative]

The worst thing we can do is to send our gay and leftist green politicians to “invade” Poland and the Ukraine. This is our newest form of “Blitzkrieg” with the positive side effect that we get rid of those dumbasses. ;)

This is ***exactly*** what I mean by Germany stabbing others in the back.No,Germany today is not militarily aggressive...not in the least.But by doing business with enemies of western civilization (Iran,for example) and by always seeming to side with that KGB agent in Moscow (the one who clearly longs for the days of Stalin's enlightened rule) Germany and other countries have seriously threatened world peace and stability.

Now I understand that with the election of Chancellor Merkel and President Sarkozy things could very well improve but Schroeder,Chirac and others,IMO,deserve to be tried for crimes against world peace and stability.

[Atlantic Bridge]

But by doing business with enemies of western civilization (Iran,for example) and by always seeming to side with that KGB agent in Moscow (the one who clearly longs for the days of Stalin's enlightened rule) Germany and other countries have seriously threatened world peace and stability.

Well - Germany has many different interests than the US or other western nations. The contemporary world is a struggle of different ideas, markets and philosophies. Therefore it is quite logical that we Germans insist on our right to do business or to have political relations with everybody we want to. As a German I have to say that it should be clear that we Germans first fight for our own interests.

To give you an example - It was President Bush who declined Kyoto with the argument "America first". He did not want to risk American jobs for a European hullabaloo. This is perfectly okay with me. We Germans do nothing different when we continue to sell refrigerators to the Iranians. Furthermore your very own US-administration has close economic and political relations with some of the most terrible crooks we both can think of.

A few funny examples: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the ChiComs. The Pakistanis and the Chinese even have numerous nukes and are as reliable as the Iranians would be if they would have some.

For someone who calls Pakistan an ally our German connections to Russia, a country that respects human rights (i.e. they do not have capital punishment in difference to the US anymore - something quite important to Europeans and their values), that has a working justice system, that has elections and democracy and that has -last but not least- changed into a capitalist system should be perfectly okay. Anything else would be extremely hypocritical.

[Gay State Conservative]

Well - Germany has many different interests than the US or other western nations.The contemporary world is a struggle of different ideas, markets and philosophies. Therefore it is quite logical that we Germans insist on our right to do business or to have political relations with everybody we want to.As a German I have to say that it should be clear that we Germans first fight for our own interests.

I don't know if the typical German realizes this but Western civilization is under attack.9/11...riots in France...mosques in the UK that openly teach "jihad"...the murder of a descendant of Van Gough...bombings in Madrid...should I go on? Add to that the fact that the Chinese military is expanding by 10% each and every year and that Putin openly boasts of new nuclear bombs he's developing and you'll see that we (the West) have a problem that demands cohesion and cooperation.

To give you an example - It was President Bush who declined Kyoto with the argument "America first". He did not want to risk American jobs for a European hullabaloo. This is perfectly okay with me. We Germans do nothing different when we continue to sell refrigerators to the Iranians.

Rumor has it that Germany,France,Russia and other nations have been selling more that just refrigerators to Iran....if you catch my drift.

Furthermore your very own US-administration has close economic and political relations with some of the most terrible crooks we both can think of.

Crooks? I think we're talking about something rather more important than "crooks" here.

A few funny examples: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the ChiComs. The Pakistanis and the Chinese even have numerous nukes and are as reliable as the Iranians would be if they would have some.

Somehow I doubt that the Israelis,and others,would share your confidence in Iran's trustworthiness.In fact,I think Israel would disagree so strongly that she just might fire a couple of nuclear missiles at Iran as they get close to deploying their first nuclear bomb.And why would they do that? Because the doomsday speeches that are routinely delivered by top Iranian officials these days sound too much like "Mein Kampf" to them.

For someone who calls Pakistan an ally....

Perhaps you'd get back to me regarding your contempt for Pakistan after a 767 crashes into Frankfurt's tallest building at 900 kph and one crashes into your Reichtag at the same speed.

....our German connections to Russia, a country that respects human rights (i.e. they do not have capital punishment in difference to the US anymore - something quite important to Europeans and their values), that has a working justice system....

A working justice system? That's a joke,right? Tell that to the British Home Office,which has been trying for months to have a Russian citizen extradited to the UK (no death penalty there,BTW) for having murdered an outspoken opponent of Putin...WITH A RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL....on British soil.Working justice system.My God that's funny.

....that has elections and democracy and that has -last but not least- changed into a capitalist system should be perfectly okay. Anything else would be extremely hypocritical.

I don't know if Germany has heard yet but Putin is in the process of setting himself up to be the power behind the scenes after Russian law compels him to leave office.It sounds like a move of which Stalin himself would approve.

The bottom line is this....there is one free,democratic country that can stand alone against the Russians,the Chinese and the Religion of Pieces and it's *not* Germany.It's not even the EU (yes,I know the EU isn't a "country")...it's the United States of America.In other words,whether your realize it or not,you need us far more than we need you.And if you think I'm kidding just remember what I've said next time the Russians decide to shut down a gas pipe because some Western European newspaper prints something that Putin feels is insulting.

[Atlantic Bridge]

I don't know if the typical German realizes this but Western civilization is under attack.9/11...riots in France...mosques in the UK that openly teach "jihad"...the murder of a descendant of Van Gough...bombings in Madrid...should I go on? Add to that the fact that the Chinese military is expanding by 10% each and every year and that Putin openly boasts of new nuclear bombs he's developing and you'll see that we (the West) have a problem that demands cohesion and cooperation.

I also share the impression that we have a problem that demands cohesion and cooperation. After all it was America and not Europe that acted unilateral first. Nevertheless the world is not collapsing just because of a few idiots in the ME. The question for a typical German like me is if it makes sense to provoke the whole world without any need and if it is necessary that we as Germans join into operations that I and my compatriots are not convinced of. Practically nobody in Germany is convinced of the current US-policy in the ME although we share the general opinion that those nations there need a change and freedom. Nevertheless we doubt that this can be done from outside.

Since 17 years we Germans are a sovereign nation at least and therefore it is our very own decision where we join and where we do not. It has nothing to do with backstabbing if we continue to sell a few fridges to the Iranians. We are a nation that is dependent on its exports. We can not pick out the customers of our refrigerators just because you Americans do not like them. Our economy is in a hard competition with yours and it is nothing new that America is using political pressure to pave the way for its own businessmen. We already noticed this a few times in the past. Your own economical failures (BTW - American fridges are excellent in difference to many other American goods :) ) on international markets and your private political vendettas are no reason for us to give up the field. It would be indeed backstabbing if we would sell i.e. nuclear technology to Iran. Nevertheless this is something that was never legal in Germany since the fall of the shah.

Rumor has it that Germany,France,Russia and other nations have been selling more that just refrigerators to Iran....if you catch my drift.

We were talking about Germany and not about the Russians. It is true that we Germans had some criminals who did so. They all went to jail to my knowlege. BTW - two American businessmen tried to sell the Iranians F-14 parts not that long ago.

You see - this world is a rotten place. There are crooks everywhere. No matter if we talk about Germany or the good ole USA.

Somehow I doubt that the Israelis,and others,would share your confidence in Iran's trustworthiness.In fact,I think Israel would disagree so strongly that she just might fire a couple of nuclear missiles at Iran as they get close to deploying their first nuclear bomb.And why would they do that? Because the doomsday speeches that are routinely delivered by top Iranian officials these days sound too much like "Mein Kampf" to them.

It was Germany and not the US who gave Israel the possibility to answer the Iranian threat in a suitable way. While your politicians wasted their time in a unsubstantial mumbo jumbo about a war with Iran we donated (well they had to pay one third) 5 of your top-of-the-line Dolphin subs. Those subs are capable of carrying the nuclear tipped Popeye Turbo cruise missles and give Israel a perfect second strike abillity. The certainty of the mullahs to vaporize away to their "Allah" immediately if they fart into the wrong direction is for sure much more worth than the recent sabre-rattling of your administration. The Iranians know very well that you are structurally not able to invade them and they are used to some bombing... Therefore the American scare tactics can not be not that impressive to them.

BTW - if we Germans are "stabbing any freedom loving nation in the back" (your words) we would have sold those subs to Iran and North Korea for good and hard Euros instead of donating them to Israel.

I don't know if Germany has heard yet but Putin is in the process of setting himself up to be the power behind the scenes after Russian law compels him to leave office.It sounds like a move of which Stalin himself would approve. The bottom line is this....there is one free,democratic country that can stand alone against the Russians,the Chinese and the Religion of Pieces and it's *not* Germany.It's not even the EU (yes,I know the EU isn't a "country")...it's the United States of America.In other words,whether your realize it or not,you need us far more than we need you.And if you think I'm kidding just remember what I've said next time the Russians decide to shut down a gas pipe because some Western European newspaper prints something that Putin feels is insulting.

No. You can not. America alone is not powerful enough to deal with those dangers. We Europeans see things without your national self-adulation and therefore more realistic. You need us and i.e. the Russians to keep the world safe and stable. Therefore there are some compromises to be made. It is indeed true that nothing will go without America, but you will find out soon that also nothing goes without the other powerful western nations like the UK, France, Australia and last but not least Germany.

Think about it.

[Gay State Conservative]

Those subs are capable of carrying the nuclear tipped Popeye Turbo cruise missles and give Israel a perfect second strike abillity.

Second strike capability? Do you ****honestly***** believe that Israel will settle for ***second strike*** capability.I can't respond frankly to that comment or several of your other comments without getting banned from FR.However,I will observe that if you're typical of today's European (which I strongly suspect is the case) then it's obvious that Europe's future is a very dark one indeed.Soon you will understand,close up,what "sharia law" is and you'll come to understand how cold winters can be as Putin and his friends get more and more powerful and,as a result,become more and more willing to shut off your gas supplies because some columnist or politician insulted the "Great Motherland".

[Atlantic Bridge]

"sharia law"

Frankly - our 3.7% muslim minority here in Germany consists mainly of social underdogs that have problems to write their name. I know what I am talking about since we have a few of them working for us.

It might be difficult for you to understand but the probability that those idiots are "taking over" is practically not given. They are simply not enough and usually much too dumb to do something political.

To answer your next question: No they are not able to outnumber us. The muslim population has a quite simular fertility than native Germans. Muslimas found out about the miracle of birth control just as their German sisters. Their fertility is higher than theirs but only slightly and the muslim immigration rate to Germany is practically zero since many years. The biggest immigration wave to Germany in the recent years came from Russia and eastern Europe.

Putin and his friends

I have absolutely no problem with Putin. It is somehow understandable that the Russians wanted at least some money for their gas from the Ukrainians. Therefore they stopped the deliverance.

Russia is not perfect, but it is somehow a democracy and a civilized country. We Germans are their closest partners in the western world and Russia is on one hand our future treasure chamber for raw materials and on the other a immense market for our goods. If we work together with Russia it is a win-win situation. They benefit from our technology and know-how and we benefit from their resources. The best possibility to export freedom is exchange and business. The western system is attractive enough to sell itself if educated and civilized people like the Russians get access to our ideas. Since we exchange ourselves with them we infiltrate them with freedom at the same time. This is much more effective than unpleasant wars.

[Gay State Conservative]

My God....such breathtaking foolhardiness.Conversing with you has made me even more pessimistic about Europe's future.

Have a nice life.Our conversation is over.

[Atlantic Bridge]

It is indeed interesting how some people react if they are unable to catch up with the arguments of others.

Bye bye.

A.B.

[Polak z Polski]

And I love Ukraina too!
Good neighbors.