Posted on 10/14/2007 1:29:17 PM PDT by reasonisfaith
Something about Ron Paul doesn’t smell right. Despite the fact that he appears to advocate core conservative values such as upholding the constitution and limiting government power, instinct tells me not to touch Ron Paul with a ten foot pole. Conservatives understand this. He’s just too kooky. I think it comes down to two possibilities: either Ron Paul is very foolish or he is very evil.
It’s true that on a certain level, tending to our own political and economic affairs here in the U.S. is where we should focus most of our resources. But the cauldrons of tyranny and terror are ever-present in far reaches of the world. When these wicked brews begin to boil over and spill their hateful contents onto our land, that’s the point where we must take action to extinguish the fire at its source. We did so in Japan and Germany sixty-odd years ago, and we are now doing it in Iraq.
Ron Paul’s behavior is consistent with two possibilities. The first possibility allows for the notion that Paul is an honest man with true libertarian beliefs who just doesn’t understand the reality of geopolitics, thus he is basically a kook hopelessly unfit for the oval office. The second possibility is less likely but nonetheless fun for the imagination: Ron Paul is part of a conspiracy, planned for decades, that covertly seeks something sinister—either a Hillary presidency (by means of dividing the conservative vote) or the downfall of the United States.
“The second is extremely unlikely”
With that comment you proved you’re Michael Moore. This explains your willingness to completely abandon rational thought at regular intervals during the discussion.
“The point remains that the US did not enter WWII until we were either attacked or war was declared on us.”
You probably agree with the leftists who whine about the war on terror saying “terror is a method not a country.” This complaint and yours quoted above are nothing more than aid and comfort to this new terrorist enemy who uses our own conventions in his battle against us.
Thank God we have a president who refuses to allow the underhanded methods of contemporary terrorists like Saddam or Binladen trying to cheat the conventional rules of war.
Leftists who give this support to our enemies are scum and cowards. Like the terrorists, they hide like dogs in the sewer.
That's why we've shut down immigration from Saudi Arabia, stopped delivering them our most advanced weapons systems, and seized their international assets?
And why we've chased bin Laden into the Pakistani northwest and smoked him out of his cave?
Last I checked, there were more head scarves than I could ever remember in any particular public place. Last I checked, bin Laden was taunting us with the headlines via VHS tape delivered to Al Jezeera. Oh, and Al Jezeera is available on cable most anywhere in the USA now. And we're celebrating Ramadan in the white house. That's just since 9/11.
“It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that had this country been invaded and occupied by a foreign power, that a resistance movement such as the world has never seen would take place. Why would the Middle East be any different?”
The ability to see the existence of moral absolutes paves the line of cultural division in our country. Your argument here places you clearly on the side of the leftists.
I think we agree with each other on this point....
We've begun driving the party to the fiscal right, and we must keep going until the country is back in the hands of the people in the various states.
Not a bad thing at all, IMHO. Hey, I think that libertarians and conservatives have many points of agreement that they can work on, and that the natural base of operations for both is in the Republican party. Far be it from me to complain if the Reps suddenly grow a spine and get the small government religion. If they do, it will be largely thanks to the libertarian-leaning in the party.
But, we can still disagree on foreign policy, legalization of drugs, etc. I would rather have that argument than have to continue to deal with the gun-grabbing, tax-loving Rinos and Rats.
“Which was, as i pointed out, a ‘ruse’ to cut off argument on that basic point.
Sorry, you need present your case, as your apriori premise requires defense.
Logical fallacies do not good argumentation make.”
You’re not making sense. Can you not understand that the discussion is about Ron Paul, based on my foregone conclusion that the Iraq war was a good idea? You have no way out, you are defeated by the framework of logic.
“Which of course doesn’t address the fact that the statements were stupid and in fact, were an Excluded middle fallacy.”
Except for the fact that I showed they were not, assuming you would be able to understand.
I’m starting to feel sorry for you.
“That’s why we’ve shut down immigration from Saudi Arabia, stopped delivering them our most advanced weapons systems, and seized their international assets? And why we’ve chased bin Laden into the Pakistani northwest and smoked him out of his cave?”
And why we’ve had no more attacks from those sissy little dogs, and why we’ve beaten them out of Iraq, back to their caves of mud and dust?
AL QAEDA LOSES!! UNITED STATES WINS!!
And they don’t dare bring it on now, because that would lock in a Hillary defeat!
I’m sorry, but we have to finish what we started. If we pull out now, we will leave behind a rapidly filling blood-pit the likes of which has not been seen since the killing fields of Cambodia. This would be the height of irresponsibility. Ron Paul has no idea what he’s about. If we do not show the Arab world that we are serious, we will have September 11th every six months, and no “peaceful stance” has ever softened the greedy desires of bullies. If this is Ron Paul’s stance, he’s truly disconnected from reality.
Allowing the terrorists to drive us out of Iraq would meet that definition perfectly. What do you think would happen if the Arab world confirms that the US can be defeated simply by inflicting enough civilian casualties, hm?
Or do you think that convincing them that we're peaceful now (in other words, that they can do anything they want to the rest of the world and we won't interfere) will save us?
Abject surrender, in other words. Hoping they kill us last. My God, that is the most foolish thing I've ever heard.
Well then, I’ve done my best. You talk about obsession with defining our goals as if it were wrong to be sure about what we were doing. Leadership is all about defining things, articulating facts clearly and accurately. That’s why it is so important that we deal with each one of the issues I’ve brought up here as logically and factually as possible. I’ve done my best to present my side. Thank you for your considerable time, APL!
rt= His ideas about national defense are not well excepted by conservatives or Republicans in general. On that front he’d be more in line with the left wing of the Democrats, but even there it would only be a small percentage who would agree with him and you. Maybe the Green Party or the Peace and Freedom Party would be a better fit. Is the Peace and Freedom Party still around?
Have you stopped beating your wife yet ? Yes or no.
Have you stopped beating your wife yet ? Yes or no.
I’m just suggesting that if you don’t have confidence in what we’re doing now, you may truly have to open your horizons and examine what others are suggesting. Don’t get confused between the word pacifism and peace. Ron Paul is assuredly not a pacifist, otherwise he would not have suggested that our Armageddon weapons as a deterrent, and when he has offered the precision-funding mechanism of letters of marque in fighting our new war (which he fully acknowledges the need to do). There is a lot of disinformation out there about Ron Paul because the Establishment is terrified that he will succeed. So try to look beyond the cliches now. You know in your heart that our present immigration policies are not working, and that the present leadership refuses to address our concerns. That should alert you to the fact that something is very wrong with the entire picture. Others have better ideas. If it isn’t possible for you to consider Ron Paul, at least look at the history of the Federal Reserve. Watch the Youtube film “Fiat Empire.” And be prepared to think outside the mental boxs that have been built by the people in charge now.
rt= yea right. I don’t mean to be snotty but that’s ridiculous
It’s not offensive, no worries. Look at this from the perspective of the actions the Fed has taken to adjust for the sub-prime fiasco. Imagine how many investment firms would go out of business if it had done nothing. Now please think about that observation again...
“Ron Paul’s behavior is consistent with two possibilities. The first possibility allows for the notion that Paul is an honest man with true libertarian beliefs who just doesn’t understand the reality of geopolitics, thus he is basically a kook hopelessly unfit for the oval office. The second possibility is less likely but nonetheless fun for the imagination: Ron Paul is part of a conspiracy, planned for decades, that covertly seeks something sinister—either a Hillary presidency (by means of dividing the conservative vote) or the downfall of the United States.”
Well I know for a fact that ron paul is a magnet for the kooks, loons, and other assorted loose nuts in this country.
There are two hard core ron paul supporters on a website I used to post on.
One of the morons actually made the claim that his support of ron paul was the same as serving in the military. Now this same guy is a member of every crackpot conspiracy nut website there is, and actually tried to pass off a few out of focus photos of cigarette smoke and a slinky as being photos of ghosts.
The other moron climed to have served in the military, and was used as a “lab rat” for medical experiments. He’s now bilking the taxpayer’s out of thousands each month with a claim that his paranoid schitzophrenia was “service connected”. He sued the VA and is now collecting 100% disability all because he was able to pull the wool over the eyes of a judge who wouldn’t know schitzophrenia from athlete’s foot. But anycase, this guy says some pretty moronic things on that site such as we’re all going to the gulags if we don’t vote for ron paul, etc yet his posts on a white supremist site that he’s a member of are as normal as anyone on here.
Then there is the support of ron paul by all of the 2am radio nut jobs such as alex jones.
A hillary presidency WILL BE the downfall of the United States.
I’ve seen something a month ago where most of his online “support” is coming from the hillary camp, and in reality his true “base” is made from the 10,000 more or less tinfoil hat wearing nerds who live in their mothers basements.
All of his high poll numbers are because of his “supporters” spamming the polls. There are several pro-ron paul sites that directs people to whatever poll the village idiot needs help in.
They also use methods to spoof HTTP referer software to allow multiple votes on “secure” online polls, and there even going as far as manipulating Digg.com’s resources all in the name to inflate his numbers.
“Wait, I have it—a phony Republican”
Isn’t that the same as RINO?
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