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Death Penalty Case Puts Bush and Texas at Odds Over Mexican's Fate
Foxnews.com ^ | October 7, 2007 | AP

Posted on 10/08/2007 5:38:19 AM PDT by imd102

WASHINGTON — President Bush, who presided over 152 executions as governor of Texas, wants to halt the state's execution of a Mexican national for the brutal killing of two teenage girls.

The case of Jose Ernesto Medellin has become a confusing test of presidential power that the U.S. Supreme Court, which hears the case this week, ultimately will sort out.

The president wants to enforce a decision by the International Court of Justice that found the convictions of Medellin and 50 other Mexican-born prisoners violated their rights to legal help as outlined in the 1963 Vienna Convention.

That is the same court Bush has since said he plans to ignore if it makes similar decisions affecting state criminal laws.

"The president does not agree with the ICJ's interpretation of the Vienna Convention," the administration said in arguments filed with the court. This time, though, the U.S. agreed to abide by the international court's decision because ignoring it would harm American interests abroad, the government said.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bush; deathpenalty; josemedellin; medellin; mexico
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To: The Great RJ
Bush owes his presidency to that quaint phrase in the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution - "equal protection". Non citizens, protected by treaties, would be granted greater rights than US citizens. Either the treaty is unconstitutional or the death penalty would have be declared unconstitutional so that all defendants would be treated equally.
21 posted on 10/08/2007 6:46:57 AM PDT by monocle
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To: Popocatapetl

Sounds like you have the best answer.


22 posted on 10/08/2007 6:46:59 AM PDT by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly over our beautiful and free American sky.))
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To: imd102
President Bush, who presided over 152 executions as governor of Texas,

But considering he was only Governor for just under six years, I doubt many if any of the prisoners executed during his terms were convicted and sent to death row while he was Governor. The office of Governor in Texas has very limited power especially with regard to pardons and clemency. He couldn't have done much to slow down the pace of executions even if he had wanted to.

23 posted on 10/08/2007 6:57:21 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: imd102

The crux of the matter is that under the Vienna Conventions, foreigners must be allowed to contact their consulates if they are arrested. Yes, this does look like pandering to Mexico, but it is critical to international relations. If we go the route that whoever gets busted here can’t contact their consulate, then Americans traveling abroad face the same problem. They could be arrested and held without notification. There is a much bigger picture here than simpleU.S.-Mexico relations. I am on Bush with this one.


24 posted on 10/08/2007 7:10:14 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what an Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: imd102

If they *should* be allowed to contact their consulate for “advice” then their consulate should also provide legal services.

My bet is he never gave up he was an illegal and chose not to contact “his” consulate as it would dime him out.


25 posted on 10/08/2007 7:14:34 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (No buy China!!)
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To: mission-so-possible

You, sir, need a padded room, pronto.

You have the same incomprehensible post answering any post or subject.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/user-posts?name=+mission-so-possible+

I wonder what triggers you. Why did you join FR?


26 posted on 10/08/2007 7:15:50 AM PDT by melancholy (Quiz: name one country, other than the USA, that doesn't control its borders.)
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To: imd102

From what I know, this scumbag deserves to die for what he did to Jennifer Eartman & Elizabeth Pena. Bush should keep his nose out of state law issues !


27 posted on 10/08/2007 7:19:44 AM PDT by BradtotheBone
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To: imd102
It seems to me that there are three issues to be resolved in this case.

1. Does the Vienna Consular Convention provide an individually enforceable right?

This is a purely legal issue (and frankly somewhat novel). Who knows how the Court will decide this issue?

2. If the Vienna Consular Convention provides an individually enforceable right, was the defendant's right violated?

This seems like a purely factual issue. An important question is when the defendant informed law enforcement that he was a foreign national. If a defendant waits until after trial to let someone know that he is a foreign national, it seems that he has forfeited his rights. We cannot require LE to be mind-readers.

3. If individually-enforceable rights were violated, did it make a difference?

This is also a purely factual issue. Had the defendant been able to contact his consulate, would it have made a difference. Would the defendant obtained better representation or would the outcome be different?

I think this where the Supreme Court is going to toss out most of these claims on the grounds that, given the evidence, contacting the consulate would not have made a difference.

I think it is unlikely that the Supreme Court is going to find per se harm from a Vienna Consular Convention violation.

28 posted on 10/08/2007 7:25:31 AM PDT by writmeister
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To: doc30

“The crux of the matter is that under the Vienna Conventions, foreigners must be allowed to contact their consulates if they are arrested.”

The illegal alien murderer never asked to contact his consulate, and his attorneys never raised the question during his trial. He was not denied the right to contact his consulate. This sounds more like an international Miranda case where arresting authorities might be required in the future to inform foreigners of their right to contact their consulates. Assuming, of course, they are in a city where it’s legal to inquire about their legal status.

“Medellin was arrested a few days later. He was told he had a right to remain silent and have a lawyer present, but the police did not tell him that he could request assistance from the Mexican consulate.”

Just an international Miranda case.

Do you also want to extend this right to those with dual Mexican/US citizenship, which the Mexican government is greatly encouraging, giving that group greater rights the mere American citizens??


29 posted on 10/08/2007 7:28:59 AM PDT by Will88
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To: FreePaul; vaudine
Is he illegal? If so, can someone explain how he is due the same treatment under the law as a citizen?

The Constitution makes no distinctions as to who receives the benefits of Constitutional rights. The restrictions on the government infringing on people's rights are universal within the jurisdiction of the United States.

The fact that he has broken the law does not remove the government's obligation to respect his inalienable rights.

He's not due the same treatment. He apparently is entitled to far more legal rights than a citizen.

The whole point of why the State Department is supporting his appeal before the Supreme Court is that we want to insure the same right for Americans to get help from the American consulate if they are arrested while abroad.

How can we expect other countries to respect the rights of our citizens to seek such aid, if we don't respect the rights of their citizens to do the same?

If this slimeball's appeal is successful, he will get a new trial and another day in court. He isn't receiving any more rights or protections than any US citizen would receive, and the whole point is to guarantee the rights of American's traveling abroad.

30 posted on 10/08/2007 7:39:42 AM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: Will88

Additional comment: If illegal aliens are arrested in sanctuary cities, the arresting officers are prohibited from inquiring about legal status. I think Houston is a sanctuary city, so those officers could not have informed the murderer that he could contact his consulate.

Jorge may have second thoughts when that’s considered. He might not have thought this one through as well as he thinks. To inform the arrestee that he can contact a consulate, they must ask questions as to citizenship and status in the US, which is prohibited in most large US cities.


31 posted on 10/08/2007 7:53:01 AM PDT by Will88
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To: imd102

and yet he lets two border agents rot in jail.


32 posted on 10/08/2007 7:53:03 AM PDT by Hildy ("man's reach exceeds his grasp"? It's a lie: man's grasp exceeds his nerve.)
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To: untrained skeptic
...we want to insure the same right for Americans to get help from the American consulate if they are arrested while abroad.

Was Medellin prohibited from contacting the Mexican consulate? The Mexican government obviously knew about this from the start. Where were they at the start? Did he tell anyone that he was a Mexican national? He is being granted special rights because he is a Mexican citizen. Bush has sold us out to Mexico at every chance. This is just another example.

33 posted on 10/08/2007 8:02:50 AM PDT by FreePaul
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To: imd102

Bush loves the murdering criminal invaders far more than his countrymen.


34 posted on 10/08/2007 9:03:12 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: writmeister
"contacting the consulate would not have made a difference."

He was tried in the USA, thus he had a lawyer. He could have had his lawyer contact his consulate anytime he chose to do so. The SCOTUS should find that this is a moot point.

35 posted on 10/08/2007 9:06:46 AM PDT by Deguello
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To: Will88

Calling it an international Miranda case is interesting and it sounds like a reasonable label. However, this is not simply a case of more righs for Mexicans. This case is critical because Americans have the same rights when they are outside of the U.S. To deny these rights to foreigners here means to deny these rights to Americans abroad. No group has more rights than another.


36 posted on 10/08/2007 9:11:09 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what an Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: doc30

We’ll probably end up with a longer Miranda statement: And if you are a foreign national, you have the right to contact your consulate for legal advice. That way, arresting officers still won’t have to ask about nationality or legal status.

But, I still wonder:

Will dual citizens have this right to consult the consulate of their other citizenship? No way that they should be able to, because that does give special rights to one group; not equal rights.


37 posted on 10/08/2007 9:18:17 AM PDT by Will88
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To: imd102

I was tempted to post “Jorge Boosh” jpegs on this thread, but after reading some of the replies, it seems that Bush is actually doing the right thing in this case, not just pandering to Mexico yet again.


38 posted on 10/08/2007 10:19:14 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Repeal the Terrible Two - the 16th and 17th Amendments. Sink LOST! Stop SPP!)
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To: Deguello
That is what I think will be the upshot. Even the Ninth Circuit has reached that same conclusion.

I expect, at worst, that the SC will send these cases back simpy to review whether it would make a difference.

39 posted on 10/08/2007 10:51:18 AM PDT by writmeister
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To: Lobbyist

As an independent, sovereign nation, foreign law holds no jurisdiction here. I find it almost amusing that Mexico would petition an “international” court concerning the treatment of her citizens while living in this country. The dirty little secret is no other place in the world would this individual be treated as fairly as he has been here. He received a fair trial, and received a fair punishment for his crime. I humbly suggest the sentence be carried out as soon as possible, so the final Judge may determind His final and ultimately most just ruling.


40 posted on 10/09/2007 8:01:00 AM PDT by cmndrdebbie
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