Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

UK: Vicars told not to wear dog collars in public as it makes them a target for muggers
The Daily Mail (U.K.) ^ | October 7, 2007 | CHRIS BROOKE

Posted on 10/07/2007 11:28:49 AM PDT by Stoat

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-85 next last
To: RedMonqey; AnAmericanMother

You’re quite right, of course, to say that usage and longevity don’t automatically confer respectability: but you are quite mistaken about the connotations of this term in Britain, which have never been at all pejorative. The colloquialism became current at the same time as the collar itself was replacing the previously traditional long white clerical bands as the normal ‘uniform’ for Church of England clergymen: and remember that this was the time, in the latter half of the 19th century, when the CoE was at the apogee of its power and repect. Ever since then it has been the universally used term by those in and of the Church, as well as those outside it. Its connotations throughout my own (longish) lifetime here in England, and well before, have been of affectionate, familiar respect, not in the least derogatory. There’s a distinction between colloquialism and slang; and this term belongs firmly in the former category.


61 posted on 10/08/2007 1:04:12 AM PDT by Winniesboy (Caution: Occam's razor carelessly applied can cut your own throat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: IncPen

What an insulting headline

I would love to see headline

“Journalists and liberals muzzled in public.”

Probably happen when pigs fly


62 posted on 10/08/2007 4:33:40 AM PDT by Nailbiter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IncPen

headline also insulting considering another story posted here yesterday about fireman being disciplined for observing gay sex in park. Cannot remember title of story, but derogatory term for what the perps were doing in park was “dogger or dogging”


63 posted on 10/08/2007 4:38:15 AM PDT by Nailbiter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Winniesboy
I think of it as something an undergraduate might say, in a friendly and somewhat breezy manner -- as a servicemember or former servicemember might say "Padre." I notice in fiction (e.g. Angela Thirkell, Dorothy Sayers, Conan Doyle) it's the young fellows who're using the term, not the staid old matrons like yours truly.

Not derogatory -- but not something I'd say myself (at least not where a clergyman I didn't know well might hear me!)

64 posted on 10/08/2007 11:05:48 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother

If the OED is to be believed, it was actually a bishop who first used the expression with this sense!


65 posted on 10/08/2007 11:29:30 AM PDT by Winniesboy (Caution: Occam's razor carelessly applied can cut your own throat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: kittymyrib
I know several vicars and they themselves refer to the collar as a "dog collar". No disrespect at all.

We are "PC-ing" ourseleves to death these days.

66 posted on 10/08/2007 12:17:07 PM PDT by Churchillspirit (We are all foot soldiers in this War On Terror.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Winniesboy
My OED's upstairs and I'm down, so I haven't checked. But that's funny!

I can see where the name came from because of the physical resemblance and the contrast with the Roman collar. I'm sure no serious disrespect was intended!

After all, think of the Dominicans (Domini canes)!

What I want to know is, where did St. Dominic find a yellow Lab? (they'll carry anything in their mouths - including flaming torches).

67 posted on 10/08/2007 1:53:07 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother

That image reminds me that to judge from some of their memoirs, Victorian country parsons often devoted as much pastoral care to their canine as their human parishioners. That being the case, it would not have occurred to them that there was anything untoward in the application of a canine metaphor to their professional garb!


68 posted on 10/09/2007 4:49:40 AM PDT by Winniesboy (Caution: Occam's razor carelessly applied can cut your own throat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Winniesboy
Yes, the old-fashioned Hunting Parson . . .

(dear Mr. Trollope!)

69 posted on 10/09/2007 5:00:36 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
Dail Mail is something I not real famaliar with so I’ll take you word on it.

As for “utterly pejorative words”, time was many of those same words could be said in polite society and noone would bat an eyelash. Calling an African American “black” at one time was “progressive. An “coloured person” is verboten. Now a “person of colour” is en vogue

But if the Anglicans don’t mind who am I to say otherwise?

70 posted on 10/09/2007 9:01:51 PM PDT by RedMonqey ( The truth is never PC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: RedMonqey
time was many of those same words could be said in polite society and noone would bat an eyelash.

You're dead wrong on that. I don't know how old you are, but I'm on the shady side of 50, and my maternal grandmother (born 1895) would NEVER have used such words, and they were NOT acceptable in polite society, EVER.

She was a D.A.R., white-glove-and-pearls, Southern Lady. No well-bred person would have used such language in her generation, my mother's generation, or mine. It just was not done.

71 posted on 10/10/2007 8:01:39 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
No ma'am I hate to correct a lady butI’m thinking of an longer time span of history in some of theses words than yourself or your maternal grandmother .

Ever read Huckaberry Fin. Tom Sawyer?

Remember when gay meant happy?

She was a D.A.R., white-glove-and-pearls, Southern Lady

If she talked about blacks in her era she would have used an equally unPC word and just as offensive.

"Darkkies" or "negroes"

Neither would win acceptance as enlightened to today's ears
72 posted on 10/10/2007 5:45:36 PM PDT by RedMonqey ( The truth is never PC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: kinoxi

Why does the British press insist on calling them “yobs”?

Why not call them filthy Muslim criminals?


73 posted on 10/10/2007 6:03:05 PM PDT by 2111USMC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: RedMonqey
I'm sorry to correct you back, but in my undergraduate days I did extensive research on 19th century history and wrote my thesis on a collection of unpublished correspondence from the 1860s.

Even in the days of Saml. Clemens, it was Huck, Pap, and the river crowd that used the "N-word", not Aunt Polly, Judge Thatcher, or any of the well to do townsfolk. Even in those days it was considered low, Clemens used it in Huckleberry Finn to make a point -- it was the only way human debris like Pap could find to hold themselves above SOMEbody.

"Negro" is actually the correct anthropological term and was not considered derogatory until the "Black Power" movement of the sixties. My grandmother not only used that term, she also used "Negress". Now THAT would get Al Sharpton's BVDs in a bunch. Some older ladies of color in my youth preferred the term "colored" and of course their preference was honored.

Nobody said "darky" outside of a minstrel show, certainly not a lady.

74 posted on 10/10/2007 7:42:03 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: kittymyrib
Do people in England really call them “dog collars”? I have never heard them referred to as such, the correct term being “clerical collars.”

My father has been an Episcopal minister here in the U.S. for over 50 years -- and I've always known the term "dog collar" for them. I consider it a familiar, not disrespectful, term.

75 posted on 10/11/2007 6:12:10 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: RedMonqey
Dog collars ? Is this the proper term for priests collars? I’m not Catholic or Anglican but for an news article this sounds awfully pejorative.

Of course it's not a "proper" term, but it's so long been an "in" usage, people who make a fuss about it are clearly not Anglicans. (I can't speak for RCs.)

It's sort of like the U.S. term "Whisk(e)ypalians" -- an internal jest that might look offensive, pejorative and derogatory to an outsider.

(But use it in those contexts and you may have a battle on your hands.)

76 posted on 10/11/2007 6:18:33 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Winniesboy; RedMonqey; AnAmericanMother
Its connotations throughout my own (longish) lifetime here in England, and well before, have been of affectionate, familiar respect, not in the least derogatory. There’s a distinction between colloquialism and slang; and this term belongs firmly in the former category.

Thank you! The same is true this side of the pond.

77 posted on 10/11/2007 6:21:45 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: 2111USMC
Why does the British press insist on calling them “yobs”?
Why not call them filthy Muslim criminals?

As I understand "yob", they're far from being all Muslims, immigrants, or whatever. A vast number of them are home-grown (genetic, if you will) Anglos.

78 posted on 10/11/2007 6:26:29 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar
Good analogy -- "Whiskypalian" is indeed an inside joke.

Q: "Do Episcopalians believe in smoking and drinking?"

A: "Yes, but they're not necessary for salvation."

"Episcopagan" may be more accurate these days . . .

79 posted on 10/12/2007 6:20:14 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
A: "Yes, but they're not necessary for salvation."

LOL!

80 posted on 10/12/2007 2:07:27 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-85 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson