Giuliani, Evangelical Rift Grows Over Abortion

The Christian Post ^ | October 5, 2007 | Michelle Vu

[mickie]

"That has been my thought on it all along. Glad to know I'm not the only one suspicious of St. Rudy".

I am certain that Rudy is in this race to be sure that sHillery wins the White House.

Of course he would be well paid back for his effort. She'd probably appoint him to the Supreme Court.

My daughter thinks so too.........anybody else out there?

[blackbart.223]

"Voting for a socialist to defeat a socialist only makes the problem worse."

Okay. Follow Dobson and anoint Hillary president. But don't bitch when your taxes go up to pay blood money for abortion on demand, your health care choices are shot to hell and more of your freedoms disappear. I am not saying Guliani is the answer. But I damn sure know Hillary is not.

[blackbart.223]

"I am certain that Rudy is in this race to be sure that sHillery wins the White House."

And what do you base this on?

[torchthemummy]

seems like another good article for your ping list

This may be an article but it is certainly not an objective article. This is in fact an editorial.

[torchthemummy]

I don’t know this for sure, but I suspect that Rudy is more pro-abortion than Hillary. Hillary’s position on abortion changed to pro-death when her husband ran for national office. Prior to that, it was pro life. To run as a democrat for national office, you must be pro abortion. It says little about her convictions except that she would sell her soul (if she has one).

You know it is one thing to be anti-Guliani. It is another thing to actually believe that Guliani is more liberal/pro-abortion than Hillary. It is quite reasonable to assume that for political reasons, Guliani had to, as a Republican in a deep blue city, adopt a pro-choice stance even if he wasn't really onboard or onboard at all. It is also quite reasonable to assume that from the time of college to the midway of Bill Clinton's gubernatorial career Hillary adopted a pro-life position for political expedience and viability in that southern state. Then as the Dems as a party fully embraced abortion Hillary was all ready to jump on board. It was a key tenet that she learned in college but knew she had to bide her time until the rest of her party caught up.

[dschapin]

Your comment was vile and unsubstantiated. Just because you disagree with Dobson doesn’t make him a bad person or a phony. He simply has principles - deal with it!

[dschapin]

The war on terror is important but I fear that many of us conservatives have gotten a little bit hysterical over the issue. Here in America we are not in any forceable danger of being taken over by Islamic Extremists. At the worst we might see another horrible terrorist attack like 9-11. This would be bad but it is certainly not time to jettison all of our values and support Giuliani simply because we are afraid of an Islamic bogeyman. As one of our founders said, anyone who gives up freedom for security deserves neither.

[dschapin]

Wow - one would almost think we didn’t hear the same interview. I thought Dobson sounded like someone who was making a genuine stand on principle and knew he was going to face criticism for making it. As to his email, he used a little bit of hyperbole (not a tenth as much as we use in our posts on FR however) but he didn’t say anything personally nasty in the email. He simply repeated many of the strongest arguments that have been made against Thompson’s candidacy. Finally, you have to remember that this email was a private one that he sent to his friends in the Arlington Group (a collection of other social conservative activist groups) and not intended for public distribution.

[dschapin]

If Dobson was concerned about his empire he would have sold out and jumped on board Rudy’s train. If he had been willing to act as a go between for Rudy - I am sure that he would have been rewarded with access and power. Instead he chose to stand for his principles when they will clearly cost him much influence and support. So, you can criticise his decision but it is blatantly false to suggest that Dobson’s unpopular stand is somehow a cynical career move since he gains absolutely nothing by it.

[LibLieSlayer]

His heart was opened PUBLICLY for everyone to see... it was as black as midnight. MILLIONS have seen the true dobson... an evil and vile man. As they say in Texas... “Don’t pi** on my boots and tell me it’s raining”.

LLS

[Man50D]

I am not saying Guliani is the answer. But I damn sure know Hillary is not.

The answer is for the GOP to reverse its trend towards socialism by leadership and not offer socialist leaning candidates to party members. Just because there is an R after the candidate's name doesn't by default mean the GOP socialist is different than the Democrat socialist. If Hillary is "anointed" as you put it, it will be due to the Republican party's continued alienation of Conservatives by failing to appease what once was its base.

[devolve]

• In 1996 James Dobson did not vote against the already obvious and corrupt Slick Willie and Hillary - Why not?
  
  
• In 2000 Gary Bauer became a candidate and legally ran for President
  
  
• In October 2007 James Dobson stated on live radio and TV he opposed Fred Thompson, Rudy, McCain, and was not backing Romney either
  
  (DISCLAIMER: If I am wrong on this please cite and post accurate links, actual audiotapes, etc.)
  
  
• Forget James Dobson panning Rudy - He deliberately said he would not back Fred Thompson on live talk radio and TV - Why was he so quiet in 1996?
  
  Was Dobson thinking of the New England church (sorry - I do not know the town, church, minister) that Slick Willie ordered the IRS to pull their 501(C)3 religious charity non-profit tax-exempt status of? I dunno - It's your guess
  
  
• I have not stated on FR threads or in any personal emails or even conversations that I have selected any Republican candidate as my personal choice - Yet some who are too lazy have stated on FR threads have said I selected Rudy
  
  I will not endorse Ron Paul and will be glad to state he and Dennis Kuchinich are both quite entertaining -
  
  Tax status of that "Council" that wants to form a 3rd political party:
  
  Others can look up if that "Council" is an - 501(C)3 or 501(C)5 - I do not know - anyone here on FR that is able to find Google Search can find it out for themselves
  
  - Liberal "sleeper" trolls beware
  
  Sorry - using "Conservative", "conservative", "Christian", "thinking Christian", Libertarian", "libertarian", etc in a FR screen name, tagline, or on a FR profile page simply means somebody can type to me
  
  Often it proves to be the clue of a seminar poster on Free Republic
  
  Posts they make often soon use their choice of adjectives and nouns seen at DU
  
  Do I make errors in facts, statistics, quotes (from memory), etc?
  
  You betcha!
  
  And I will admit them - but I do not reply or respond to nutcases or those who call inappropriate names (sorry nutcases) or many recent FR signups or those who constantly post contrarian comments on FR threads - Their comments expose them to thousands of FReepers and lurkers
  
  I also don't go pushing the "I'm offended" (ABUSE) button every few days - I may have once hit "ABUSE" - but there are others who will or might and the FR Mods and Jim Robinson does a fantastic job as Hillary attempts to close down Free Republic and other great newsites and blogs and put "The Fairness Doctrine" back on talk radio
  
  
  I may be posting on FR less and be on talk radio more in the future - At this time I am not sure - But there are many others on FR
  
  Talk radio was useful in 2000 and in 2004 in keeping in contact with many in South Florida - My email lists there alone number well over six times the 2000 margin in Florida - So blame those Southerners living in a liberal area there who did not fly down from NJ or NY to vote a second time -
  
  I am pleased to see that Bob Grant is back on WABC in NYC from 8pm-10pm ET M-F now - but watch out for "sleeper liberal" John Batchelor (he calls himself a "Republican") on WABC 770am NYC and nationwide - last night he spent hours panning Republicans
  
  When you hear John Bachelor say "my party" get ready to be BS'ed in spades
  
  Batchelor is no better than his old partner Alexander and both left WABC for good reasons - more and more guests and comments were designed to advance democrats and Socialism - research his earlier years, his wife, his books
  
  I cannot post here how I know this - it is insider stuff and I will not divulge my sources to anyone
  
  Lastly - Rush hit the right points hard earlier today - Thanks
  
  
  
  
  The spelling and grammar cops can now go over my post as it seems to be their only purpose in life
  
  

[dforest]

Does not matter what Dobson says about Rooty. NO to Rooty. Rooty is the one thing that stands in the way of defeating Hillary.

They will not go third party unless Rooty is in the race.

Rooty is a Democrat, the only thing standing in the way of stoping Hillary. He has no conservative credentials and no credentials on the WOT. He is not worth it.

[blackbart.223]

"If Hillary is "anointed" as you put it, it will be due to the Republican party's continued alienation of Conservatives by failing to appease what once was its base."

If Hillary is anoited it will be because of people like you who can't see the forest for the trees.

[Man50D]

If Hillary is anoited it will be because of people like you who can't see the forest for the trees.

The GOP would not find itself in this predicament if they spent as much if not more time working with the Conservatives, who were once the base of the party, than the party spends appeasing the socialist Democrats.

[blackbart.223]

"The GOP would not find itself in this predicament if they spent as much if not more time working with the Conservatives, who were once the base of the party, than the party spends appeasing the socialist Democrats."

I am a staunch conservative. And I will not hand a victory to Hillary not matter what. If she gets in with majorities in the house and the senate kiss your ideals goodbye for the foreseeable future.

[Man50D]

If she gets in with majorities in the house and the senate kiss your ideals goodbye for the foreseeable future.

The GOP kissed Conservative ideals goodbye a long time ago and as a result Congress is controlled by socialists and the White House could be run by a socialist if either Giuliani or Clinton win the election.

[County Agent Hank Kimball]

If Dobson was motivated by principle, he’d fight like hell for the candidate of his choice to be the nominee. But then, once the nomination was set, he would act based on WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CAUSES HE CARES ABOUT.

And there is simply no case to be made that Rudy Guiliani would not be preferable to Hillary with regard to those issues. Not great. Maybe not even good. But clearly better than Hillary.

If Dobson cared about principle rather than personal aggrandizement, recognizing the reality that a 3rd party candidate isn’t going to win, he’d work to elect the candidate that is least harmful to his values.

A 3rd party candidacy is at best symbolic and at worst harmful to the causes Dobson claims to espouse. If he goes that route, he outs himself as out for James Dobson, not the pro-family cause.

Hank