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To: FastCoyote
but neither can we claim that we are the ultimate being IN the universe, for that would be irrational (and exactly what atheists claim, that there are no greater Gods than our level).

That is a very feeble attempt at a straw man. Atheist certainly don't claim that we are the ultimate being in the Universe. We do make the claim that there cannot be an Omniscient, omnipotent being that the Christians claim is God. I can prove that by the way : )

The universe has a nervous system (light rays/radiation) which transmit information from one end to the other (the infamous example being I Luv Lucy episodes being viewed fifty light years from here).

If you knew anything at all you would know that Light from one end of the universe will never reach the other end of the Universe. You seem to have a fundamental problem with the basic theory of Relativity.

Consequently, while I may not have provided a formal proof of God, I can show that there is possible a universal thought and value structure. But neither can you prove anywhere near the opposite, that the universe is a random string of bits with no grand designer. In fact if you read the top authors on theories of multiverses, they more eloquently are able to describe their uncertainty that disproving the existence of God is even possible given the melding of concepts of information and creation and brane theory.

I happen to be familiar with string theory, multiverses and brane theory. Your theory that the universe has a nervous system, sense of self preservation and moral certainty is laughable and anthropomorphic. Is that the best you can do to prove Gods existence?

But neither can you prove anywhere near the opposite, that the universe is a random string of bits with no grand designer.

Actually I can, using the superposition theory. It is trivial actually if you have even the tiniest bit of knowledge about QM.

That said, I was brought up Missouri Synod Lutheran.

Do you believe all the Lutheran doctrine and teaching?

And what I said was that the belief in a non-God-God was a structural equivalent so you could not set yourself apart from us and claim some logical superiority by default. Whether you believe in God or don’t, Romney is on a path of ego that I find exceptionally disturbing.

Again you are confused. You weren't talking about Atheism you were talking about Mormons belief in God and their belief that they could become a God vs your own belief in God.

Now to put your argument on a proper basis. Both you and Mormons believe in a God. I do not. With your failure above to demonstrate the existence of God, it is only reasonable to conclude that your belief in God is irrational. Hence you are irrational.

Now if you are asserting that your definition of God is simply a more intelligent being than any human, then you may have a point. What is your definition of God?

639 posted on 10/07/2007 12:26:37 PM PDT by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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To: LeGrande
That is a very feeble attempt at a straw man.

Off subject, but using the word straw:

Watch out at restaurants this fall season, for some have placed displays with strawbales and other dried out foliage right next to their outside smoking areas!

At the Bob Evans® in Greenfield, IN the butt receptacle is sitting between a bale and the resting bench!!

650 posted on 10/08/2007 4:22:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: LeGrande
With your failure above to demonstrate the existence of God, it is only reasonable to conclude that your belief in God is irrational. Hence you are irrational.

Then wouldn't the invesre be true as well???

With your failure above to demonstrate the NON-existence of God, it is only reasonable to conclude that your NON-belief in God is irrational. Hence, as an Atheist, you are irrational.

651 posted on 10/08/2007 4:24:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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