[grey_whiskers]

Moreover, it's the statists who think that government's role be expanded and individual liberty curtailed in the name of some amorphous good. In other words, one's rational self-interest should be determined by someone else. That's BS.

That would be true except for two things.

1) People often pursue irrational self-interest such as smoking, not wearing seatbelts, going through life 40 pounds or more overweight, etc. (I choose these examples because they are not controversial in the context of this thread.)

2) The societal costs of irrational self interest does affect other people considerable, giving them incentive and in some cases the duty to react.

Libertarianism is based on an idealized version of human interactions.

Cheers!

[1rudeboy]

I do find it interesting that some people complain about bureaucrats and bureaucracies, then turn around and claim they know what's better for others.

As for people acting irrationally, in most cases they should have the liberty to do so as well. I'm not much of a libertarian . . . I'm a free-market conservative. Ronald Reagan observed that the two travel along the same path.

[dennisw]

Libertarianism is based on an idealized version of human interactions.

If that ain't true nothing is. You can also say free trade and free markets are idealized  versions