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Bishop Would Deny Communion to Giuliani
AP ^ | October 4, 2007 | CHERYL WITTENAUER

Posted on 10/04/2007 5:50:34 AM PDT by NYer

ST. LOUIS (AP) — Roman Catholic Archbishop Raymond Burke, who made headlines last presidential season by saying he'd refuse Holy Communion to John Kerry, has his eye on Rudy Giuliani this year. Giuliani's response: "Archbishops have a right to their opinion."

Burke, the archbishop of St. Louis, was asked if he would deny Communion to Giuliani or any other presidential candidate who supports abortion rights.

"If any politician approached me and he'd been admonished not to present himself, I'd not give it," Burke told The Associated Press Wednesday. "To me, you have to be certain a person realizes he is persisting in a serious public sin."

Asked if the same would apply to politicians who support the death penalty or pre-emptive war, he said, "It's a little more complicated in that case."

Asked about Burke's comments Wednesday while campaigning in New Hampshire, Giuliani said:

"Archbishops have a right to their opinion, you know. There's freedom of religion in this country. There's no established religion, and archbishops have a right to their opinion. Everybody has a right to their opinion."

Burke says that anyone administering Communion — ordained priest or lay minister — is morally obligated to deny it to Catholic politicians who support an abortion-rights position contrary to church teaching.

Burke published an article in April in a church law journal that explored whether it is ever appropriate to deny Communion. Some U.S. bishops interpret church teaching to say that an individual examination of conscience, not a minister, should dictate whether a person is worthy to receive the sacrament.

Burke said denial of Communion is not a judgment. "What the state of his soul is is between God and him," he said.

The nation's bishops are expected to discuss the question again in meetings next month. Burke said he has made no policy proposal, simply laid out his thoughts in the article.

Burke will not be attending the bishops' meeting because of a prior commitment in Rome.

His stance on Giuliani was made public earlier Wednesday in an interview with The St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

A number of other Catholic presidential candidates also have abortion-rights stances in apparent conflict with church teaching. Giuliani is the only Catholic among the top-tier candidates.

Giuliani, a Republican, sometimes evokes his Catholic upbringing as he campaigns for president, yet he declines to say whether he is a practicing Catholic. He has been a longtime supporter of abortion rights.

While it is unlikely Giuliani or any other presidential candidate will present himself to Burke for Communion in the next few months, the archbishop's comments revive an issue that could be a factor for churchgoing voters.

In 2004, Burke said he would deny Communion to Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee who supports abortion rights. Several other bishops have said politicians should refrain from the sacrament if they oppose the church on such an important issue.

As for Giuliani, when a voter in Iowa asked him in August if he was a "traditional, practicing Roman Catholic," he said: "My religious affiliation, my religious practices and the degree to which I am a good or not-so-good Catholic, I prefer to leave to the priests."

Last week, Giuliani compared the scrutiny of his personal life marked by three marriages to the biblical story in which Jesus said only someone who was free of all sin should try to stone an adulterous woman.

"I'm guided very, very often about, 'Don't judge others, lest you be judged,'" Giuliani told the Christian Broadcasting Network.

"I have very, very strong views on religion that come about from having wanted to be a priest when I was younger, having studied theology for four years in college," he said.

"So it's a very, very important part of my life," he said. "But I think in a democracy and in a government like ours, my religion is my way of looking at God, and other people have other ways of doing it, and some people don't believe in God. I think that's unfortunate. I think their life would be a lot fuller if they did, but they have that right."

Republicans have been most successful with religious voters — President Bush, a Methodist, won the Catholic vote over Kerry, a Catholic, in 2004 — but Democratic candidates are fighting back and have spoken frequently about their religious beliefs this year.


TOPICS: Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: burke; catholic; communion; giuliani
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I agree it was a baited question to begin with when he was asked. The reaction and answer was a for gone conclusion. He could have said no comment, but choose to again repeat is already quoted answer which was then printed calling attention, again, to himself.

There are many more Church leaders who would refuse to answer such a leading question when first asked let alone to repeat the same answer again.

But then again maybe the he likes to be quoted.

What seperates one persons “sin” being different from anothers is really the unanswered real question.


21 posted on 10/04/2007 9:55:39 AM PDT by chiefqc
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To: chiefqc
“Hey look at me, I’m over here. See how important I deserve to be, look over here it’s me the important looking guy”.

LOL Good immitation of Rudy. I can just see him saying that, waving his arms around, dressed in drag.

22 posted on 10/04/2007 10:06:34 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: chiefqc
I know Archbishop Burke. He's my bishop, and I don't detect an attention-seeking bone in his body. He is a quiet, soft-spoken gentle-hearted man. His heart is to uphold the teaching and doctrine of the Church, for the sake of Christ, and for the good of the Church. It so happens that Archbishop Burke's efforts toward that end attract attention, in part because these sorts of things are not as common as they should be, and in part because those who oppose such things (particularly the liberal media) draw attention to them in a negative manner.

-A8

23 posted on 10/04/2007 10:08:12 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: NYer
Bishop: No Communion for Giuliani

24 posted on 10/04/2007 10:25:16 AM PDT by Coleus (Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: chiefqc
"What seperates one persons “sin” being different from anothers is really the unanswered real question."

For those interested in Canon Law, let's really look at the real words of the text:

"Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted
after the imposition or the declaration of a penalty
as well as others who
obstinately
... they were explicitly warned, and ignored the warning
persist ...they repeatedly commit or or keep justifying the offense
in manifest... public, easily seen by all, not private
grave sin ...murder, sodomy, blasphemy, adultery, fraud, abuse of a sacrament: something of a visible, scandalous nature
are not to be admitted to communion."

A pretty good short layman's-language overview can be got from used for less than five bucks.

An important thing to remember is that canon law is ecclesiastical. It does not cover the whole law of God; it does not cover secular criminal law; it often assigns ecclesiatical penalties for offenses which are NOT covered by secular law.

For instance, there are a zillion crimes not explicitly dealt with by canon law, because they are already covered by secular criminal law. But striking a priest incurs ecclesiastical penalty, not because it's worse than striking the President of the United States, but because it involves the delict of contempt for persons, places or things associated with God, and thus requires spiritual amendment.

Anyone who commits ANY serious sin should abstain from Communion, all Catholics know this; but a person who commits public sin without publicly epenting and renouncing it, should be publicly stopped, if necessary, to prevent them from profaning the Sacrament.

25 posted on 10/04/2007 10:36:41 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Point of information)
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To: NYer
“My religious affiliation, my religious practices and the degree to which I am a good or not-so-good Catholic, I prefer to leave to the priests.”

weak-kneed response

If someone asks me “ Kelly, are you a practicing Roman Catholic?” My answer would be “Yes, I am....and I’ve got the scars to prove it. LOL”
Next question...

any politician who says they are “pro-choice” is NOT A PRACTICING CATHOLIC. PERIOD!
I don’t care what anybody says!

26 posted on 10/04/2007 10:58:54 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

This entire thing is getting out of control. I have nothing against Catholics, all I’m saying is that while SOME like to make headlines with their response to a loaded question their voices are quiet when there is dirt within their own house and about those who cover it up for years.

While this is not a personel dislike of his beliefs, he should also be as verbal on all the sad things that he sees within his own house.


27 posted on 10/04/2007 11:33:12 AM PDT by chiefqc
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To: faloi
I’m not a Catholic, but I would’ve thought his multiple marriages would be enough to not receive Communion (based on my Catholic school years).

Yup. Unless there was an annulment we don't know about, then he's steal married in the eyes of the Church to Donna Hannover, Judith is then just his mistress.

28 posted on 10/04/2007 11:35:41 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (Fred Thompson 2008, no need to "suspend disbelief" with him)
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To: chiefqc
"...he should also be as verbal on all the sad things that he sees within his own house."

How do you know he hasn't been? Do you read the Archbishop's news releases, letters, columns, and homilies (available free, here)? Do you subscribe to to Archdiocese newspaper, the St. Louis Review? Or is your sole source of complete and accurate information the Associated Press?

Actually, Burke is a solid, stand-up guy, and I don't say that about every cleric that comes down the pike.

29 posted on 10/04/2007 11:58:46 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: adiaireton8
I am not Catholic, but am a Christian. I supported him in the Childrens Hospital-Crow thing, just wished he hadn’t have waited to the last moment to do it.
I think more leaders of the church should stand up to the law of the Bible. Some are afraid, some want the money they wouldn’t have if they were fired. All priest, pastors etc..will have to answer and be held accountable to what they said or didn’t say to their flocks someday.
That said—I was speaking to a group of Catholics and they all were against Burke and were very negative towards him.
That just amazed me. I being non Catholic was the one supporting him.
I just wonder if he is making some uncomfortable with his stands.
Reminds me of this verse-”Blessed are those persecuted in my name”
30 posted on 10/04/2007 1:50:43 PM PDT by surelyclintonsbaddream (PRESIDENT DUNCAN HUNTER --Will Build A Fence-- True Military man--True Patriarch)
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To: chiefqc
He could have said no comment,

And if you hadn't condemned him as a spineless wuss on that basis, you can be certain that lots of other folks would have.

31 posted on 10/04/2007 1:54:42 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: surelyclintonsbaddream
I just wonder if he is making some uncomfortable with his stands.
Reminds me of this verse-”Blessed are those persecuted in my name”

Leftist "catholics" of the sort who vote for clintons and kennedys, and support "reproductive freedom" had a bilious, vitriolic, spitting, screeching hatred for the late Pope John Paul II which had to be witnessed in person to be fully appreciated. They extend the same courtesy to Pope Benedict XVI. There's definitely a measure of "Blessed are you when they curse you, and insult you and utter every kind of slander against you on account of Me" (quoted from memory) going on here. Let us pray for these good clergymen, that God grace them with perseverance in preaching the Gospel. Let us pray also for their more timid brethren, that God grace them with moral courage to begin preaching the Gospel fearlessly to a hostile world.

32 posted on 10/04/2007 2:05:03 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: surelyclintonsbaddream
I was speaking to a group of Catholics and they all were against Burke and were very negative towards him.

I've experienced the same thing. There are many Catholics who don't understand the Church's beliefs and laws. And they tend to have their opinion about Archbishop Burke shaped mostly by the local liberal paper and the evening news. And if those are your only sources of information about him, you're going to think he is a trouble-maker, power-monger, attention-seeker, ecclesiastical bully, etc., etc. But that's not the way he is at all. He is a very devout, loving man, standing up for what the Church actually believes, teaches and proclaims.

-A8

33 posted on 10/04/2007 2:05:54 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Finally someone gets beyond their religious blinders for their preconceived attacks of their religion and their leaders.


34 posted on 10/04/2007 3:39:20 PM PDT by chiefqc
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