[Bitpig] Science Fiction And The Future: So What?

Brucelewis.com ^ | 2007.10.03 | Bitpig [B-Chan]

[B-Chan]

Science Fiction has a lousy record of predicting the future. In the 1930s, for example, it was widely held that by 1970, toga-clad descendants of the Depression Generation would be living in giant art deco cities full of speeding Dymaxion Cars and dining on food pills. In the '50s and '60s, it was rocket belts and atomic-powered flying cars we were supposed to be enjoying by 2000. And today? In almost every extrapolation of the future I've read lately, the ultimate fate of mankind is uploading -- the transference of consciousness from biological to digital substrates. Such uploads, it is claimed, will be immortal and (within the environments they inhabit) omnipotent as well. "Ye shall become as gods," the futurists tell us, 'knowing Good and Evil... AND ye shall not surely die."

Leaving aside the soteriological results of our last gamble for that prize, one question always remains in my mind after reading the latest sci-fi scenario of our imminent apotheosis: so what?

The question seems facetious, but I'm asking in earnest: what's the point? Given unlimited power its environment and an eternity in which to shape it, the human mind is doubtless capable of creating paradises both gross and subtle. Yet, when spread over capital-E Eternity, surely even human creativity ends up as pretty thin gruel. And, when one factors in the exponential speed of thought that will supposedly be available to our uploaded selves, surely Eternity will end up being a lot longer than we might imagine. After all, eventually even the most creative of uploaded minds is going to reach the limits of its creativity, even if that creativity is expanded by collaboration with the creativity of the billions of other uploaded minds. It may take a million years, or a billion, but sooner or later every iteration of every creative idea is going to be experienced by the godlings that once were us. And then what?

(Some would argue that the AIs we're going to build will transcend our own intelligence and create godlike super-intelligences that will be "as gods", providing meaning and purpose for post-humanity. I myself don't see a market for such machines. To what purpose would people of today invest in their construction? "We're looking for investors to help us build a machine that will instantly render all human life obsolete, Mr. Bigbux. How much shall we put you down for?"

So we become immortal, all-powerful digital beings. What then? An eternity of reruns doesn't sound like much fun to me. A cosmic reset button, making us forget everything so we can start afresh? Sure, but that dooms us to an endless cycle of resets. It pains me to think that our deified, uploaded descendants may eventually decide to delete all backups and pull the plug on the whole works out of sheer ennui.

I hate to say it, but the Heaven promised us by Moore's Law sounds more like Hell to me. To my (admittedly limited) mind, a "heaven" that is limited by human ingenuity is always going to end up in a yawn. Perhaps this is why God's Heaven is described as being beyond human comprehension — to give us an eternity that goes beyond what we ourselves can create.

Don't get me wrong — I'm all for living as long as possible. I want to walk on the moon, for one thing, and I intend to stick around until I can. But living forever — as an uploaded mind or as a biological human — eventually leads to "So what?"

(And I haven't even discussed the effect of physical immortality on the human family. After all, people who live forever don't need to have offspring. I for one would not want to live forever in a universe without children.)

Nope, I don't buy it. I know that most SF writers are way smarter than I am, and I know they have Moore's Law on their side, but I've got to believe that there has to be something better as the end of existence than boredom. I may be a Luddite, but I'm hoping that the future of uploads and artificial gods that we're being promised now ends up looking as silly as the rocket-belt-and-toga future we looked forward to Way Back When

[bigheadfred]

An’ I wanna make out with hot, green alien chicks like Cap’n Kirk!Cap'n Kirk is a hot, green chick? When did that happen?

[KevinDavis]

I agree.. That is my fear..

[LiberConservative]

"I see our future more like Firefly than anything else.."

Me, too. The libertarian politics that permeated the show was fascinating.

[LibWhacker]

Dude... cheer up! There’s no end of mathematical theorems that can be proven. And if there really are an infinite number of “universes,” we’ll never run out of interesting things to do! Besides which, time... eeets relative. :-)

[KevinDavis]

I agree... I would be on the Independents side than the Alliance... To authoritarian for me.

[Yossarian]

An’ I wanna make out with hot, green alien chicks like Cap’n Kirk!

Cap'n Kirk is a hot, green chick? When did that happen?

I'm pretty sure that was one of those "transporter accident" episodes...

[bigheadfred]

Thanks for the info. For a sec I thought it was one of those “temporal displacement” episodes where he gets stuck in a GID Clinic in Sweden.

[tbw2]

I disagree with anyone else having the right to tell others when to die. After all, they might then decide NOW is the right time.

[Captain Beyond]

Good Post btw. You are spot on there it always boils down to the free will aspect of God's creation.

As to the article itself I'm sorry but whatever AI/VR-Transhumanism comes about it can not replace actual living. It is assuming that the mind can recreate a whole living universe within it self's mainframe that can be just like the human senses of the living and actual life experience. Bottom line it is creating a human being and a planet in a machine. It is nice Sci-Fi but what type of device can hold billions of consciousness while at the same time constructing billions of universes for all these minds to live in plus if you create other humans in the mainframe to interact with then those will become actualized living beings in the construct which then will create more universes in the mainframe plus what if the constructs decide for themselves to over throw the mainframe and want to become human again in the real world. And then there is always the anarchy factor of someone planting a virus in the machine to destroy it. Then comes the problem of sorting out who rules the machine-verse and who decides the morality of the machine-verse etc. Then there is problem of a power source for this machine and also who is going to be paying the power bill for this machine while it runs. But the really big question is who will be willing to stay behind and hit the "Any-key" when the program hangs up?

We have already seen the(The Matrix/ The Matrix Reloaded/ The Matrix Revolutions/ The Animatrix) and several other movies that have dealt with type of subject matter so if this is the future of Sci-Fi and us as a race then we are in for a lot of reruns.

[Mobile Vulgus]

Amusing that you make the claim that I cannot possibly know what an immortal man might think... and then you go ahead and assume YOU know what an immortal man might think.

You have a serious problem with logic, doncha?

[Cvengr]

I'm completely sure that if biological immortality is ever achieved in humans (and that still won't preclude accidental death or murder, you know), that they will look back on your post here on this server (or the backup server it's been archived to) and smile.

I'll just offer a thought experiment here, based upon well established theology, which has touched upon this same issue.

Biological immortality is achieved in humans and has been presented to us. It is documented in the person of Jesus Christ. Now before turning off the thinking light as soon as one reads His name as being a religious topic void of reason, I encourage the skeptical minded to continue to read.

The idea had been presented that if biological immortality is achieved, then accidental death and murder are not precluded. On the contrary, this manifests a framework in our thinking which presupposes many aspects of our anthropology which Scripture actually enumerates for us.

The topic of biological immortality is discussed in Scripture related to the resurrection of the body. The new body is composed of that which is immortal as opposed to what we presently have as mortal. Let's follow this a bit further.

One of many reasons our life here prior to the first death is so important, is that there will come a time when God's perfect Holiness will no longer tolerate the policy of evil in His midst, nor shall he surrender His fellowship with His family. There will come a point in time when certain basics are discerned in individual persons and a separation occurs. Also those with eternal life also have certain awards which have been created in eternity past, awarded to them as crowns which they will keep for eternity.

The assumption that accidental death and murder remain, fails to recognize that in eternity future, death is also removed from His presence. This is spoken about in Revelations 21:1-8.

When reading those Scriptures, consider why the separation of those who are murderers from God and those where death has past away, might be the very reason why murderers are removed from eternal life.

Good science fiction isn't based upon atheism or agnosticism, but is well honed from the many bible doctrines which have been manifest in Church History.

The topic of computerized neurology isn't new, but IMHO, even an adolescent approach should be able to discern between monasticism, dichotomous mind-body studies, and trichotomous Christan doctrines when discussing such issues. Identifying all human existence based upon the physical alone in one's sci-fi is like never advancing beyond the Wizard of Oz as a children's story. The challenging stuff if to discern body, soul, and spirit in our anthropologies and how we might best perform as God actually created us to perform by what He provides in those domains. Science is intuitively obvious childs' play compared to His Plan.

[Cvengr]

Science Fiction has a lousy record of predicting the future. In the 1930s, for example, it was widely held that by 1970, toga-clad descendants of the Depression Generation would be living in giant art deco cities full of speeding Dymaxion Cars and dining on food pills.

Perhaps, but in Metropolis, The central executive looks eerily familiar and I'm still amazed by the insight of a PC monitor being a translucent plexiglass, thin screen to which Raymond Massey would perform communication and research in H G Wells 'Things to Come'.

BTW, for Fritz Lang afficianados, some newly found METROPOLIS film footage was discovered in Argentina with some previously unknown characters, which is scheduled for release on Blu-Ray in 2009. from http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/movie-news/metropolis-new-footage-in-next-years-blu-ray-release.php

[samtheman]

Good science fiction isn't based upon atheism or agnosticism, but is well honed from the many bible doctrines which have been manifest in Church History.

Good science fiction is in the eye of the beholder. If you're making the claim that the bible is good science fiction, I will at least agree with you that it is more of a publication success than any other work to date.

[samtheman]

I didn’t claim to know what they would think; I only claimed to suspect that they would smile. I didn’t predict a thought; I predicted a smile.

You, on the other hand, predicted an entire state of mind. You predicted that they would weary of their state. All of them. The entire population. You didn’t just say one of them would grow weary, you said they all would.

All I said was one of them would smile.

There’s a difference there in what we both predicted, a difference if (you shed your partisanship for a moment) you can see for yourself.

[Cvengr]

Scripture containing the Word of God is true and everlasting.

Almost every major work of science fiction which has been popularized and enduring touches upon a major disagreement in Church History regarding bible doctrine.

For example, Frakenstein, basically addresses the Creator-Creature distinction. It looks at the old sin nature and the discernment in the anthropology of man.

Moby Dick considers man who attempts to overcome evil independent of God, while looking at Providence.

Many episodes of Star Trek addressed the Borg as a possible interpretation of the Kingdom of Heaven, the Body of Christ, and membership in the body by all believers after good and evil are judged.

Issues of spirituality and manifestations of physical phenomenon induced by spiritual means are quite popular on Sci-fi shows, although few are based upon Scriptural truth.

[Mobile Vulgus]

Well, that was a disingenuous reply.

How did you get in your first response to me from (bold mine):

I'm completely sure that if biological immortality is ever achieved in humans ...they will look back on your post here on this server ... and smile.

To your second reply to me where you then say:

All I said was one of them would smile.

Last I checked my Funk and Wagnalls, THEY means more than ONE. And you presupposed that "they" on the word "humans"... yes, with an "s" on the end which is certainly in the plural.

Sorry, but you CLEARLY made the same assumption of know what all of them would think that you claim I did.

In the end, you assume YOU know what an immortal human would think, too. So your criticism is based on an illogical premise of my supposed failure of being all knowing because you take the same tact in your own determination.

Bye, bye now.

[Hyzenthlay]

If I remember my Star Trek correctly, Captain Kirk did indeed become a chick (maybe hot, but not green) at one point near the end of the original series - maybe the very last episode? It’s been years since I’ve seen it but I think she tries to kill him and her name is Janice Lester or something...

[America_Right]

I love how all technology threads here get turned into religious threads. (Sarc...)

Nice. I thought I was the only agnostic/atheist believer in science on FR! I think there are maybe 7 or 8 atheistic right-wingers in the entire country. I get the crap kicked outta me every time I post something like that. At least the guys/gals on here aren't totally mean-spirited about their attacks on us. In fact, I get a lot of blessings out of it.

Kudos for being ballsy enough to post this. :)