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"The War" (by Ken Burns) Part 4 of 7; Airing on PBS @ 7PM Central 9-26-07
pbs.org ^ | undated | PBS staff

Posted on 09/26/2007 2:30:49 PM PDT by VOA

This is a "heads-up" for the airing of "The War", the Ken Burns
(Florentine Films) production on PBS.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: documentary; kenburns; pbs; thewar; wwii
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To: groanup

In Philadelphia they wouldn’t even let blacks drive buses.


61 posted on 09/26/2007 10:03:37 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: daler
And what would have a “conservatively-biased” account be?

I am very conservative. But facts are facts. We fought well, we lost some we finally won. (Thank you Lord).

There is plenty of positive in this series. No..It’s not a John Wayne movie. But our guys fought really hard, under bad circumstances. Not all parts of American history are flattering.

“War is cruelty. You cannot refine it.” General William Tecumseh Sherman.

62 posted on 09/26/2007 10:23:52 PM PDT by berdie
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Jealousy over WWII Film sparks Latino Protest
SFGate | 09/19./07 | Delfin Vigil (?)
Posted on 09/19/2007 10:12:13 PM EDT by biscuit jane
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1899324/posts


63 posted on 09/26/2007 10:36:35 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, September 12, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: VOA

I have been watching this with my husband. I don’t do well with war violence, but am forcing myself to watch. Was thinking of buying the DVD’s (so some of the idiots in our families could see it) but now don’t know....

I’m also torn....on Oct 7th is the 63rd anniversary of the death of my husband’s Uncle (bombadier in a B17 hit over Germany, made it to Switzerland - died in a hospital there.)....I am feeling called to send a note to a couple of his grand niece’s who today are extremely liberal, spoiled brats. I don’t think they even know about him....as I doubt their mother has told them much. Heck, they probably don’t know about their grandfather’s service in the Phillipines either. Maybe instead, I’ll put a book together of his letters, pictures, etc....and at some point they’ll get that....obviously I’m just blabbing here....but, worried about people forgetting WHY there IS war, and who the good guys are.


64 posted on 09/26/2007 10:38:37 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Being Challenged Builds Character! Being Coddled Destroys Character!)
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To: Lazarus Longer
Way too much emphasis on the social injustices in the U.S. at the time and not enough on the war itself and individual heroism of the participants.

You nailed the way I felt watching this. In one scene we are asked to feel sorry for a black American who didn't get the promotion because of his race, and then in the next, a unit that suffers a 90% casualty rate is briefly mentioned.

It is like the war is a backdrop to talk about the racial inequities of the 1940's rather than the other way around.

65 posted on 09/27/2007 6:35:26 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: berdie
“War is cruelty. You cannot refine it.” General William Tecumseh Sherman.

"War is a series of catastrophes that result in victory." - Clemenceau

66 posted on 09/27/2007 6:43:34 AM PDT by dfwgator (The University of Florida - Still Championship U)
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To: wbill
Burns made it sound like blacks showed up to fight, and were deliberately kept out of it by the white brass.

___________________________________________________

IOW....Burns got it right.

67 posted on 09/27/2007 6:52:03 AM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: VOA
PBS and Burns decided "no more than 30 minutes of real war documentary between each "America was awful then" gripe-session".

Rodney Dangerfield had a joke that went "I went to a fight last night and a hockey game broke out".

I went to watch a documentary on WWII last night and a Ivy League class on victimology was presented instead.

68 posted on 09/27/2007 7:00:33 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: VOA

All those black guys complaining that hey couldn’t go to the front and get in the big battles...they came home intact.

Not like my 19 year-old brother, who was killed on the island of Saipan.

Some people have made bellyaching a way of living here in the US. Ken Burns only enables this stupid “victim” mentality.

Sharpton and Jackson profit from it.


69 posted on 09/27/2007 7:03:46 AM PDT by Palladin (Satan to Fidel: "Let me light your cigar.")
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To: Last Dakotan

Guess what Burns next documentary is likely to be about?

That’s right, The Vietnam War.

As Ronald Reagan said, “You ain’t seen nothing yet.”


70 posted on 09/27/2007 7:03:48 AM PDT by dfwgator (The University of Florida - Still Championship U)
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To: RobbyS
I gather that as the war wore on, our guys became more like the Japanese troops, because that was the only way to take them down. They were, after all, religious fanatics dying for a living god, the Emperor. Don’t waste lives trying to take them prisoners: just kill them

_____________________________________

I suggest Richard Tregaskis' "Guadalcanal Diary" (the book not the film). He makes it clear that the Marines learned pretty quick to kill the Japs twice after a few incidents wherein 'dead' Japs got up and killed incautious Marines. The Marines would walk the dead zone and put another bullet into every Jap body.

71 posted on 09/27/2007 7:04:10 AM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: Fiona MacKnight
Does anybody think in those terms any more?

LOL!

My dad has come across a stash of wartime-era letters from his grandmother to his mother. One of them talks about Dad's impending birth, and how they're saving safety pins because the pins are so hard to come by.

At the time Dad found the letters, I was working on bring WBill Jr. into the world, and our house looked like an explosion at ToysRUS. Quite the contrast.

72 posted on 09/27/2007 7:20:03 AM PDT by wbill
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To: wtc911; colorado tanker; VOA
Your comments about Blacks being kept out of the fight are certainly correct, perhaps I was a little misunderstood.

Bill Mauldin used to tell a joke; when he asked a soldier if he was on the front line, the guy replied "No, I was 100 yards behind it." Support troops may not have been at the very sharpest point of the stick, but there's a constant danger in any theater of war.

Not to keep going back to him, but my Grandfather would likely have been considered "Support Troops"...he commanded an Anti-Aircraft Unit. However, he saw more combat at the Bulge, and at Remagen, than I'm sure anyone would ever want to. Heck, at the Bulge, the way he found out that the Germans had broken through was by coming nose to nose with a German tank while in his jeep! He used to say that the only reason he was still around was that his driver was a smidge faster than the tank's gunner....

I just felt that Burns sold the black troopers short (in the bit of the series that I saw). Sort of implied that they just sat around + complained about not getting into the thick of it. Full disclosure - I have not seen anything of the series other than that bit on Tuesday night.

73 posted on 09/27/2007 7:51:12 AM PDT by wbill
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To: wtc911; RobbyS
One of my favorite books is "Semper Fi, Mac". It's a bunch of WWII Marine's recollections put together by Richard Berry. Berry interviewed a couple of dozen Marines, including Hank Bauer and Orville Freeman.

Great stuff. There's no substitute for hearing what the guys were thinking, and it's nice to see in its undistilled form. Historians sometimes do some selective editing.

74 posted on 09/27/2007 7:55:52 AM PDT by wbill
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To: RobbyS

Another good book on the “no quarter” combat in the Pacific Theater
(probably should come with a parental advisory):

With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa
by E.B. Sledge

http://www.amazon.com/Old-Breed-At-Peleliu-Okinawa/dp/0891419195/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-2777047-4620446?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190905205&sr=1-1


75 posted on 09/27/2007 8:01:58 AM PDT by VOA
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To: wbill
I just felt that Burns sold the black troopers short (in the bit
of the series that I saw). Sort of implied that they just sat
around + complained about not getting into the thick of it.


Maybe I didn't see the specific sequence, but I think Burns probably
did get the general disappointment of many black soldiers
for not getting put forward just like non-black units.

Even if it's fair comment for the documentary, I get the feeling
Burns + PBS are going to find some reason to "Blame America First".
As I mused earlier, I would not be suprised if Burns would slam
Ike for not having more affirmative action in order to get
more "soldiers of color" killed in action.
76 posted on 09/27/2007 8:07:26 AM PDT by VOA
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To: VOA; RobbyS
Oop....Yup, "Semper Fi, Mac" would definitely come with an 'R' rating for language and violence. Like I said, it's undistilled interviews. Marines' language can be a little salty, sometimes. lol!

I'll take a look for "Old Breed"

77 posted on 09/27/2007 8:15:03 AM PDT by wbill
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To: groanup
Huh? Do you honestly think that there was no segregation and discrimination in the North and the West before and during the war?

No, I don't.

78 posted on 09/27/2007 9:07:25 AM PDT by colorado tanker (I'm unmoderated - just ask Bill O'Reilly)
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To: wbill
Thanks for your post and your story about your granddad.

When I was in the Army air defense artillery was sure considered a combat branch. We had a section of them in my tank battalion.

79 posted on 09/27/2007 9:12:29 AM PDT by colorado tanker (I'm unmoderated - just ask Bill O'Reilly)
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To: colorado tanker
black and white, from the North and West saw for the first time and first hand race segregation when they were stationed in the South.

Possibly, but segregation in the North was insidious and very strong, stronger in some ways than in the South. Perhaps it wasn't seen because it supposedly wasn't happening.

80 posted on 09/27/2007 9:17:24 AM PDT by RightWhale (25 degrees today. Phase state change accomplished.)
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