Posted on 09/24/2007 6:15:44 AM PDT by Boston Blackie
Two former U.S. Border Patrol agents sentenced to lengthy prison terms for shooting a drug-smuggling suspect have asked a federal appeals court to overturn their convictions, saying they were charged with a nonexistent crime and convicted after the jury was given improper instructions by the trial judge.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
Big Brother = Sutton, Kanof, C.Sanchez, DHS (skinner and those that lied to congress), and the Mexican government
Civil Servants = Ramos and Compean
But surely, you knew that.
Have I ever called you a bigot or racist? If not, why do you feel threatened when I say that I believe they are there, I’m not talking about you.
This tribal instinct in the immigration movement to circle the wagons and protect the minority who are the worst examples of what you want to project as a group are what keeps me from getting more involved with this group here on FR. They are going to take the whole thing down and you along with it.
BTW and FWIW, Ihave stated many times on FR I support closing the border, building a wall and setting up s system where immigrants who desire to move to the US are screened, tested for disease, pay a fine, pay their taxes and monitored while they are here to make sure they go back when their work visa is up.
I’ve also advocated making it a felony to be in the US without papers, a valid visa or work permit.
I’ve advocated that any costs the US assumes in dealing with not only illegals but criminals from other countries be recovered through a reduction on assistance they receive from the US or taxation on their imported products.
I’ve advocated repealing the amendment that allows illegals children born here to be instant citizens and anchor babies.
There’s more but why bother. You don’t see me on your groups threads because I don’t want to be associated with them. Does that make you or everyone bad? No. But you’re groups lack of desire to sluff off the, to me, obvious racists and bigots indicates a lack of reliable short strategy or long term thinking about what is best for the success of this movement.
Sorry to be so hard but I want to be honest with you. I go way back and remember your work on Klamath and in Nevada. I find you to be an honest, sincere hard working person but I do think you need to take a harder more critical look at some of the people around you (on FR threads? I don’t know how closely you work with all of them) because some of them are gong to make it impossible for to achieve your goals.
How about the distance from where R&C claimed to be and the edge of the vega where OAD got shot?
What civil servants were killed at Ruby Ridge or Waco?
Anything for the cause--no insult or lie is over-the-line (it seems).
Ramos /Compean - Big Brother (DOJ/DHS) vs. Civil Servants
Get it?
I didn’t buy this story from Sanchez but I wasn’t there. KNowing where the edge of the dirt road met the levee would allow you to narrom the width of the search area to maybe 100 feet and then you can go out as far as you want. R&C claimed they were not that far into the vega so IMo Sanchez should have found that casing if it was still in the general areas where it was ejected from Ramos .40
Sand is a much better medium to work in than other soils because it has less metal content that can throw the detector off on false hits. I’ve worked with a few on land and in the water. And no, I’m not one of those old guys at the beach. In another time I used to do a bit of salvage work for treasure hunt companies, some on my own. Once I smuggled a unit onto Cocos Island againat the wishes of the Costa Rican government. Didn’t find anything and good I didn’t get caught.
Ramos/Compean - Big Brother agents with guns vs. civilian.
BTW - Don’t bother bringing up that OAD was a drug mule, R nor C knew that at the time of the shoot. The victims at Ruby Ridge weren’t entirely blameless either and that nut job Koresh deserved a thumping, but not all his followers and certainly not the children.
“Anything for the cause—no insult or lie is over-the-line (it seems).”
It seems to me whether one feels someone else is a racist or bigot is subjective. Therefore while it might be construed as an insult to the recipient it is not a lie.
But anything that doesn’t conform to your thinking you call a lie. In another forum that might be called cognitive dissonance.
Well gee--that would have required investigators to actually TALK to Ramos and Compean, now wouldn't it? Instead, C.Sanchez launched his onesided assault based on a botched investigation, filed a false complaint in the court to get an indictment, and arrested R&C without ever having had ANYONE from DHS speak one word to them.
The distance I quoted is the area that C.Sanchez testified to searching--from the top of the levee to the river.
I don’t know how you’d eliminate the possibility, especially since all you have in the report seems to be the interview with the two of them.
They both could have seen Davila’s picture in the paper, or pulled it up on the web, so it would be easy for both of them to “identify” him.
It would be like if we decided to both blame Justin Barker for a crime. We’d both google his picture, and then we could identify him in a lineup or in police photographs.
If there was no publicity of this case, I’d be less inclined to discount their “independence”. But it’s just too easy for them to coordinate their story — and still they had to change it later.
Well, we were talking about a day, october 25th, when he is alleged to have brought drugs into the country and dropped them at the house. I just thought that was the “that day” you were referring to.
It was my mistake, and I apologize.
I once lost a gold crown from a tooth at the beach. It dropped out right near my feet when I reached for a drink. I SAW it drop. I tried to grab it find it in the sand for a moment, to no avail.
A man with a metal detector was close by. Despite me knowing that if fell within less than a one foot square ‘protected’ area (at the foot of my beach chair), he couldn’t find it.
You have a very strange understanding of the term "Big Brother," IMO.
...that nut job Koresh deserved a thumping...
Unbelievable!
No problem. I’m convinced Sutton has said this since April 7th, and withdraw my objection. I was too focused on the specifics of the guilty plea of the ortiz, and didn’t consider that they would still be trying to determine all the other players who brought drugs to the house.
What i don’t know is whether Sutton is actually indicating that Davilas is a prime suspect in the investigation, or simply noting that the entire question of who brought drugs to that house is in an active investigation so he can’t discuss what evidence would either link OAD or conversely show why he he isn’t a suspect.
In any case, I appreciate you and others taking the time to educate me on that point.
Oddly, it seems that convincing me that there is still an active investigation does not seem to help the story that davilas is being given immunity for the incident, but rather reinforces my opinion that Sutton would really like to put the guy in jail, and refuses to give up while there is still any chance.
I’m guessing you and others don’t interpret what he said the same way, and probably believe he’s lying about there being an investigation. I can’t dissuade those who believe others lie.
I haven’t found most of what was called “lies” by sutton to actually be lies. At the beginning I tried to correct those, but grew tired of it, and decided to simply focus on the facts as agreed to at the scene, since nothing else really mattered in determining the guilt or innocence of the suspects.
If that’s what you consider name calling you got thinner skin than BOR.
CCG, you and Andrew got that crime scene worked out to the inch. You know pretty closely and according to the testimony the locations of Compean, Ramos and OAD at the most critical points.
So throw me a bone and estimate the distance between Ramos and OAD at the time the shot was taken.
I don’t know what “spud” means.
No, I never thought most anti-illegal immigrant people were bigots or wanted to shoot them.
I did find a few too many freepers for my liking defended shootings by saying that they were illegal immigrants so it was OK.
There was one case where a deputy sheriff who claimed a van tried to run him over shot at the van, in the process hitting a woman who was a passenger in the van, causing fortunately only minor injuries.
When I noted that he put innocent people in danger with his shooting, I was “reminded” that she wasn’t innocent because she was an illegal immigrant. Some argued that I just loved illegal immigrants, because I didn’t think being here illegally should be punishable by death.
But I always argued with the belief that if I clearly articulated the inhumanity of that position, even the most ardent anti-illegal-immigrant supporter would agree with me that we should not just shoot people because they are illegal immigrants.
So no, I actually believe most of us are good people who are pushing ideas that we personally believe are best for our country. I always approach my arguments here from that position — if I didn’t, I wouldn’t bother trying to convince people of the basic truths. I assume if I can get the facts out, people will come to the right conclusion.
I do end up on the wrong side of a lot of issues, like the Dubai ports deal, the Compean/Ramos stuff, Scooter Libby, and to some degree the illegal immigrant problem.
In other cases I’m found on the fence where others believe there is plenty of evidence to prove the point, like with Harriet Miers, who I never supported, but defended against many attacks thinking we should wait until the hearings before passing judgment.
I’m too pragmatic for some people here. I think I’m as conservative in princple as just about anybody, but I don’t apply it to others like some do. We need people like me, because if you get a conservative candidate for an office, you need people like me who are willing to overlook that candidates flaws and vote for them, rather than being ideological purists to our own ideals and rejecting anybody who isn’t perfect to us.
As to this case, I am really ready to leave the C/R conspirists to their own little world. It will make them happy, it will make me happy, and I’ll only have to deal with the unfortunate fact of too many elected republicans pandering to the conspirists and making our party look opportunistic.
But there’s only so much one person can do to advance the truth. :-)
Just one of at least a half dozen, Bob J.
That was probably one of the more mild.
I was thinking that just *maybe* you would try to be a gentleman
and apologize for them, but my expectations were again too high.
I can't eliminate the possibility that OAD was really shot by a Russian spy, either.
What we have are two people making sworn statements identifying OAD and the DEA saying that they believed there was adequate evidence to prosecute OAD, which I would assume takes into consideration their opinion about these two witnesses. Absent anything else, I'm not the one out looking for 82 different ways this could have happened or how the Ortiz brothers might have committed perjury. True, OAD is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law--but I'd sure like to see someone in the DOJ have enough backbone to prosecute the guy instead of just listening to Johnny Sutton's endless whining and hand wringing.
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