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To: stand watie

Look, you can keep calling me whatever name you like, but the charge of Genocide just isn’t defensible, at least not by the true definition of Genocide.

The means to kill certainly existed by the late 1800s, had the US government desired ever last person of american blood exterminated, they could have done it.

You don’t need a gas chamber to slaughter people. Native Americans did it with hatchets and bows long before gas chambers they committed massacres against each other long before europeans arrived. Europeans were doing it against each other with far more primative weapons as well, long before any of them had sailed west across the atlantic.

IF the goal of any policy was to ensure that every last native american was dead, they wouldn’t have been reservations to be relocated to.

Lets just for the sake of argument your alleged numbers are accurate, there were 15-20 Million natives in the contiguious 48 in the 1700s and by the mid 1800s were only 7-10 million as you claim. Tell me, where did those 7 to 10 million that no longer lived go? Given 150 years of procreation etc?

in 1790 there were ~4 million americans living in the original 13 colonies... and none other than a stray individual here or there was much west of the Missisippi or Ohio. By 1840 there were ~13 Million americans, the vast majority of them still along the eastern part of the continent.

So to get to your claims, every man woman and child of the United states would have on average had to have directly killed one Native American to get to the numbers you are claiming. This just doesn’t add up based on the evidence of a systematic slaughter of the native peoples.

There is little doubt that new diseases introduced when europeans and others arrived did cause death to native peoples... and probably devastated populations. However this is not willful and wanton planned annylation.

Now while the westward expansion and indian wars are well documented, and attrocities and massacres committed by all involved also well documented, NOWHERE are there claims of MILLIONS upon Millions of either side being butchered or killed, directly or indirectly. Your numbers just don’t add up.

I suppose you will claim disease brought by the white man whiped out the natives (as thats the only way you can get the numbers you are alleging) however there is no historical evidence that biological warfare was ever engaged upon, other than ONE reference in the 1700s by one british commander at Ft Pitt under seige contemplating it. No evidence exists that this pondering was ever turned into an executed action. All other claims are by absolute discredited fools like Ward Churchill, who basically made his allegations up.

You just don’t get Genocide by its definition out of the conflict between the native americans and the european settlers. What you have is a long drawn out war that had various hot and cooler times between 2 cultures and peoples over the course of many centuries and hundreds of thousands of square miles, and which, at the end of the day, the native americans lost. They were conquered.

To allege the american government of the 1800s did not have the capacity to slaughter wholesale the defeated indians because they didn’t have gas chambers is ill informed. If their desire was to simply end the life of every native american they had more than the capacity and ability to do so if they chose. Now does that mean that the american government did not commit attrocities against the native americans? Absolutely not.. but to call it genocide is just political correct emotionally loaded ignorance.


102 posted on 09/20/2007 8:33:51 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay; All
in other words, you are UNWILLING to accept the FACTS & would rather continue to believe the KNOWING LIES that you've been spoon-fed, as if you were a child.

the TRUTH is that the INTENT was to DRIVE OUT or EXTERMINATE the American Indians by ANY means. there are HUNDREDS of OFFICIAL US government documents which say PRECISELY that.

also the TRUTH is that the government failed to wipe out the AIs ONLY because they COULD NOT, absent more $$$$$$$$, supplies & TIME than the government was eventually WILLING to expend. (may i gently remind you that ONE Seminole "chieftain" with less than FIFTY (50) warriors tied down the modern equivalent of an infantry BRIGADE for over FOUR years, with a total casualty rate for the Seminoles of ONE killed & about a DOZEN wounded. the US army had over ONE HUNDRED KIA & at least 100 more WIA ands/or DOW. finally, the army "declared victory" & LEFT the area, HUMILIATED. there are FEW records of this HUMILIATING DEFEAT, surprise, surprise!!! )

it matters NOT that you WISH that it was not so. as "SGT Joe Friday" used to say on TV, "Just the facts." fyi, the FACTS are NOT on your side, so you give us OPINIONS "dressed up as" facts.

free dixie,sw

105 posted on 09/21/2007 8:08:40 AM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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