The party's over for American consumers

Seattle Times ^ | Sept. 15, 2007 | Froma Harrop

[dragnet2]

I do feel more secure where I'm at although there is no such thing as 100% security.

In old America, for the most part, it only took one income and most stayed with the same job for 25 or 30 years, then pensions, retirements etc. That's all gone.

No one is secure in their jobs anymore unless you happen to work for the government.

[Nowhere Man]

As long as you admit to a dark sense of humor, you should probably consider the fact that “nobody is in charge.” The international currency markets, Wall Street, etc. etc. are large forces that pols have only small control over. It’s an optimistic view to say, “They could help the little guy if they wanted to...” but the truth of the matter is, they can’t. The best thing you can hope for with any legislation in this situation is to ease the pain, not eliminate the root cause. And I don’t know of a pol who will admit to that...

Well, I don't know if you can control such things as huge as the world economy totally although there are about a few thousand "movers and shakers" in the world with influence, a consensus if you will. However, some of them like the guy in charge of the Council of Foreign Relations was interviewed by Chuck Harder and he used to be pro-free trade but not anymore seeing where we are headed, even the CFR is getting on the bandwagon and warning where we are headed. That's pretty bad when you have the CFR getting worried. I have a whole slew of Chuck Harder interviews with Paul Craig Roberts and others who explain these things.

I dunno what to think, if legislation can ease the pain, well, I guess that is good although getting to the root cause is better, but sometimes you can't. I guess the easing of the pain is likea helicopter that loses power, hopefully you can "autogyro" down to a somewhat soft landing or one you can get up from. Still, I think to fix things or at least ease the pain until we can think ourselves out of the mess we are in, it might take a strongman like an FDR type to do it.

If you go to www.archive.org and search for Chuck Harder, you can download a lot of his shows there. A side note, I get tired of host like Limbaugh and to a lesser extent, Hannity, they are too beholden to the Republicans, I like the more maverick approach of Glenn Beck, Michael Savage and Chuck Harder.

[Nowhere Man]

In old America, for the most part, it only took one income and most stayed with the same job for 25 or 30 years, then pensions, retirements etc. That's all gone.

No one is secure in their jobs anymore unless you happen to work for the government.

Well, as I said before, I feel SAFER where I'm at now. I often wonder how many people stayed at the same job prior to World War I in America. The reason why I ask that is because I remember I was in such a discussion a while ago and Durasell (ping) said that the good economy we had from 1945 - 75/85/whenever was because we were the only major power from World War II with an intact infrastructure whereas the rest of the World, save Australia, had to rebuild theirs. In short, maybe it was an abboration in history. Durasell does bring up good points but history being what it is, in most people, starting when you were born, in my case 1966, you see it as normal. Thinking on that, we might see a return to a lifestyle of The Waltons whhere instead of everyone getting their own home or pad, you'll see multi-generational homes where the grandparents, parents, and children, even grown married ones (until they can get a place of their own) live under the same roof.

I know I might get clobbered for this, but I'm 41, still live at home, hopefully until I find my significant other, but that living arrangement was common prior to World War II and we are seeing that again, again due to economic factors.

I'm a big fan of te early muckrakers and populists like Jack London (if things get bad, read his "Iron Heel" on what could happen), David Graham Phillips, Upton Sinclair and so on and they did bring about how most people lived back then.

We also need to address the fact too that some people take the easy to get loans and buy things like HDTV's and such. I know myself, I have a debt monkey to take care of but I tend to live frugally, my current computer, this one, is 9 years old and I've been watching a 1982 Zenith TV for almost 25 years. I know some people "ask for it" but others do get trapped for medical reasons ans trying to survive. I think we are in for some rough rocket rides soon.

[Greenpees]

Your so right, fight.

I’m here in AZ, and I can say with absolute confidence that if AZ would clean up it’s dreadful illegals problem, there are whole neigborhoods here that would begin selling like hotcakes.

There are thousands here who would still rather buy than rent, but the choices seem to be the ghetto (where it’s become impossible to raise children) the McMansions, or the very far desert.

A lot of us are holding our cards until the day comes that we can get a home in NPhoenix that doesn’t have burned out cars on the street w/ gang tags all over it, without buying into a newly gated HOA.

[edcoil]

There is not enough gold in Fort Knox to handle this economy and all the Fed land grabs to give value to the debt they have accrued would boggle your mind. we need a better solution then what you are proposing.

[FrankR]

Why is it, that the only...the ONLY evidence of a recession is the rhetoric of one from the left-wing media? Huh? Why is that?

There is no recession and there will be no recession unless we all draw up into a quivering ball of jello and act like there is a recession.

Ignore the clowns and live your life normally and rationally and everything will be great.

[VxH]

[Few want to admit this ominous fact.]

 

Remain Calm! All is well!

/s

[rebel_yell2]

http://www.federalreserve.gov/PUBS/oss/oss2/2004/bull0206.pdf

[A knight without armor]

There are a whole lot of people like you.

[A knight without armor]

So how long would you last with no income, AuntB?

I don’t know how long I’ll last even with income.

[Cementjungle]

It’s just irresponsible to suggest that Americans don’t save. They do.

There are a lot of people who don't/can't save anything. Worse yet, there are also a lot who are deep into debt.

[Nachoman]

Damn! The party never even started for this consumer. I must have gone to the wrong address.

[MaxMax]

Salt Lake Tribune, United States - Sep 2, 2007 Americans have coped with their
declining pay by going deeper in debt: The personal savings rate has been at the lowest
level since the Great Depression. ...

What a crock of BS!

We now have retirement funds that pay more then a stupid savings account
so "of course" people are using savings accounts less. And sure CC debt
is who's fault>? BUSH!@!

Try as they may, the MSM cannot bring on a great depression short of bombing
their own workplaces. And even then it wouldn't happen.

Seattle is run by the same style of Libs who run Oregon who love to
raise taxes and blame someone else for their own failures including the
dot.com debacle.

I lived in Seattle when they placed a vote for a .60 tax on a pack of cigs,
well, almost 90% voted against it. What happened? They passed the tax
anyway saying it for for the common good... The voters were to stupid
to vote correctly. And the voters still hold to their liberal standards!!

I moved from Seattle after 9/11 and will never look back.

Let them worship their FK-N Stalin statue...

[MaxMax]

Correction,
LENIN statue.

[Cementjungle]

42 million employees are saving for retirement through company-sponsored plans; Americans have more than $1.9 trillion invested in 401(k) plans

That's an average of $4523 per person.

[TChris]

Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh!

We're all gonna DIE!!!!!

[durasell]

George Soros (not a favorite among FR folks) gave Congressional testimony more than a decade ago on the dangers of all this cash sloshing around the globe. Warren Buffett (another un-favorite on FR) has been shorting the dollar for years. He’s a guy who has made his fortune estimating the value of stuff ala Ben Graham.

None of the problems currently facing us as particularly new or secret until now. It’s just that the chickens are returning to roost.

[Jacquerie]

Yeah, implementation could be rough. The artificial tax havens such as real estate could take a hit. Instead of being a tax advantaged investment, a home would move closer to being physical shelter or another income producer, like a bond or savings account.

My several properties would likely decline in value, but incredible opportunities would open elsewhere as capital flowed in torrents from around the world.

[EVO X]

We now have retirement funds that pay more then a stupid savings account so "of course" people are using savings accounts less.

It is the tax deferral that makes them attractive not that they pay more. You can buy the same stock funds outside of the retirement plan as inside. Some company plans are really lousy and the only reason to contribute is to get the free matching funds and/or tax deferral.

[petercooper]

trillion is alot of zeros

it’s $45,238 per person