[nicollo]

The Philippines was granted independence after the United States was unwilling to grant the territory statehood and make a bunch of little brown brethren American citizens.

That's a poor expression of the American intention in the Philippines. McKinley had no intention of holding the Philippines other than to rid it of the Spanish. Colonization of Cuba was forbidden by law, but no such law applied to the Philippines. On the contrary, McKinley actively recruited his leadership for the Philippine post-war occupation among people who believed in the power of self-government. They saw the Philippines as a test-case for American ideals.

Unfortunately, those asses, Woodrow Wilson and W.J. Bryan, cut short the McKinley program, which had been upheld by Roosevelt and Taft, and the Philippines degraded into a renewed dependency on U.S. occuptation into the 1920s/30s.

Puerto Rico (I love the old anglo spelling "Porto Rico") was a different baby. There just wasn't enough infrastructure of local powers to anchor working self-government. Sadly, Cuba lost it, too.

[buwaya]

“Unfortunately, those asses, Woodrow Wilson and W.J. Bryan, cut short the McKinley program, which had been upheld by Roosevelt and Taft, and the Philippines degraded into a renewed dependency on U.S. occuptation into the 1920s/30s. “

Not quite. What Wilson et. al. did was accelerate the transfer of bureaucratic authority to the Filipinos, which increased the power (and corruption) of Filipino politicians.

What happened next was much more interesting - the Filipinos, specifically Manuel Quezon and Sergio Osmena, very quickly discovered that they could lobby in Washington, and that this was a highly effective venue for Filipino politicians, given that Washington really had no idea what to do about the Philippines.

So Washington essentially handed over policy control to the Filipinos, almost at once. In fact the real argument over Philippine independence was not Fil-American, but a matter of Filipino internal politics. They could have had independence anytime they wanted. Quezon was actually picking his American governors.

The only area that the Filipinos could not affect was American military and foreign policy.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

McKinley was not the American government any more than George W. Bush is. Even less, considering how the executive branch has amassed more and more power.

There were many Americans, government/military officials and otherwise, who wanted to hold the Philippines as long as they could, with little intention of turning the Filipinos into citizens (in contrast to early inhabitants of American territories, Filipinos were not automatically made American citizens, and their immigration to the United States was greatly limited). The French living in Louisiana (Greater Louisiana, if you will) were made American citizens upon the United States purchasing that territory. Spaniards in Florida, the same. Mexicans in the Mexican Cessation and Gadsen Purchase, the same.

The Filipinos did initially push for independence from both the Spanish and the Americans (so did the Cubans and the Puerto Ricans), but a full independence movement was greatly boosted when Filipinos realized that the United States was not about to let them become either American citizens or let the Philippines become a state.

The other wishy-washy point made by Americans was that the Philippines was too far away to be made a state--and yet they were willing to keep the Philippines in territorial status for as long as they could, and even today the Northern Marianas, Guam, and American Samoa are still under American rule. If the United States expected to hold on to the territory, then the territory had the right to push for statehood.

And look at the last two states to enter the Union, Alaska and Hawaii. Hawaii tried for statehood starting 1919 (the Philippines also made at least one push for statehood--which led to the territory becoming a Commonwealth, which also conveniently allowed for the United States to imposed stricter immigration quotas on Filipino immigrants), made at least three attempts (three attempts passed the House of Representatives) before finally becoming a state.

Alaska tried starting in 1916, about 3 years before Hawaiians but with less indigenous support--both didn't get much support from the United States, and again with the Alaska Statehood Act in 1958, and became a state one year later (to be fair, the groundwork for the Alaska Statehood Act began in 1946), cutting off Hawaii to become the forty-ninth state.

It is a very fair statement to declare that the Philippines did not become a state because of American (particularly Southern--that's the history, tough; don't shoot the messenger) ambivalence to letting a huge population of people of non-European descent become Americans. Look around freeperdom today, in 2007. While in a minority--hopefully--that sentiment still exists.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

McKinley was not the American government any more than George W. Bush is. Even less, considering how the executive branch has amassed more and more power.

There were many Americans, government/military officials and otherwise, who wanted to hold the Philippines as long as they could, with little intention of turning the Filipinos into citizens (in contrast to early inhabitants of American territories, Filipinos were not automatically made American citizens, and their immigration to the United States was greatly limited). The French living in Louisiana (Greater Louisiana, if you will) were made American citizens upon the United States purchasing that territory. Spaniards in Florida, the same. Mexicans in the Mexican Cessation and Gadsen Purchase, the same.

The Filipinos did initially push for independence from both the Spanish and the Americans (so did the Cubans and the Puerto Ricans), but a full independence movement was greatly boosted when Filipinos realized that the United States was not about to let them become either American citizens or let the Philippines become a state.

The other wishy-washy point made by Americans was that the Philippines was too far away to be made a state--and yet they were willing to keep the Philippines in territorial status for as long as they could, and even today the Northern Marianas, Guam, and American Samoa are still under American rule. If the United States expected to hold on to the territory, then the territory had the right to push for statehood.

And look at the last two states to enter the Union, Alaska and Hawaii. Hawaii tried for statehood starting 1919 (the Philippines also made at least one push for statehood--which led to the territory becoming a Commonwealth, which also conveniently allowed for the United States to imposed stricter immigration quotas on Filipino immigrants), made at least three attempts (three attempts passed the House of Representatives) before finally becoming a state.

Alaska tried starting in 1916, about 3 years before Hawaiians but with less indigenous support--both didn't get much support from the United States, and again with the Alaska Statehood Act in 1958, and became a state one year later (to be fair, the groundwork for the Alaska Statehood Act began in 1946), cutting off Hawaii to become the forty-ninth state.

It is a very fair statement to declare that the Philippines did not become a state because of American (particularly Southern--that's the history, tough; don't shoot the messenger) ambivalence to letting a huge population of people of non-European descent become Americans. Look around freeperdom today, in 2007. While in a minority--hopefully--that sentiment still exists.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

McKinley was not the American government any more than George W. Bush is. Even less, considering how the executive branch has amassed more and more power.

There were many Americans, government/military officials and otherwise, who wanted to hold the Philippines as long as they could, with little intention of turning the Filipinos into citizens (in contrast to early inhabitants of American territories, Filipinos were not automatically made American citizens, and their immigration to the United States was greatly limited). The French living in Louisiana (Greater Louisiana, if you will) were made American citizens upon the United States purchasing that territory. Spaniards in Florida, the same. Mexicans in the Mexican Cessation and Gadsen Purchase, the same.

The Filipinos did initially push for independence from both the Spanish and the Americans (so did the Cubans and the Puerto Ricans), but a full independence movement was greatly boosted when Filipinos realized that the United States was not about to let them become either American citizens or let the Philippines become a state.

The other wishy-washy point made by Americans was that the Philippines was too far away to be made a state--and yet they were willing to keep the Philippines in territorial status for as long as they could, and even today the Northern Marianas, Guam, and American Samoa are still under American rule. If the United States expected to hold on to the territory, then the territory had the right to push for statehood.

And look at the last two states to enter the Union, Alaska and Hawaii. Hawaii tried for statehood starting 1919 (the Philippines also made at least one push for statehood--which led to the territory becoming a Commonwealth, which also conveniently allowed for the United States to imposed stricter immigration quotas on Filipino immigrants), made at least three attempts (three attempts passed the House of Representatives) before finally becoming a state.

Alaska tried starting in 1916, about 3 years before Hawaiians but with less indigenous support--both didn't get much support from the United States, and again with the Alaska Statehood Act in 1958, and became a state one year later (to be fair, the groundwork for the Alaska Statehood Act began in 1946), cutting off Hawaii to become the forty-ninth state.

It is a very fair statement to declare that the Philippines did not become a state because of American (particularly Southern--that's the history, tough; don't shoot the messenger) ambivalence to letting a huge population of people of non-European descent become Americans. Look around freeperdom today, in 2007. While in a minority--hopefully--that sentiment still exists.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

McKinley was not the American government any more than George W. Bush is. Even less, considering how the executive branch has amassed more and more power.

There were many Americans, government/military officials and otherwise, who wanted to hold the Philippines as long as they could, with little intention of turning the Filipinos into citizens (in contrast to early inhabitants of American territories, Filipinos were not automatically made American citizens, and their immigration to the United States was greatly limited). The French living in Louisiana (Greater Louisiana, if you will) were made American citizens upon the United States purchasing that territory. Spaniards in Florida, the same. Mexicans in the Mexican Cessation and Gadsen Purchase, the same.

The Filipinos did initially push for independence from both the Spanish and the Americans (so did the Cubans and the Puerto Ricans), but a full independence movement was greatly boosted when Filipinos realized that the United States was not about to let them become either American citizens or let the Philippines become a state.

The other wishy-washy point made by Americans was that the Philippines was too far away to be made a state--and yet they were willing to keep the Philippines in territorial status for as long as they could, and even today the Northern Marianas, Guam, and American Samoa are still under American rule. If the United States expected to hold on to the territory, then the territory had the right to push for statehood.

And look at the last two states to enter the Union, Alaska and Hawaii. Hawaii tried for statehood starting 1919 (the Philippines also made at least one push for statehood--which led to the territory becoming a Commonwealth, which also conveniently allowed for the United States to imposed stricter immigration quotas on Filipino immigrants), made at least three attempts (three attempts passed the House of Representatives) before finally becoming a state.

Alaska tried starting in 1916, about 3 years before Hawaiians but with less indigenous support--both didn't get much support from the United States, and again with the Alaska Statehood Act in 1958, and became a state one year later (to be fair, the groundwork for the Alaska Statehood Act began in 1946), cutting off Hawaii to become the forty-ninth state.

It is a very fair statement to declare that the Philippines did not become a state because of American (particularly Southern--that's the history, tough; don't shoot the messenger) ambivalence to letting a huge population of people of non-European descent become Americans. Look around freeperdom today, in 2007. While in a minority--hopefully--that sentiment still exists.