Posted on 09/14/2007 10:53:26 AM PDT by neverdem
Thanks for posting this article. I’ve been having similar thoughts about the comparison between the US and Rome ever since teaching World History several years back.
For starters, if we ARE the modern Rome, this means 2,000 years of continued existence, if we start from Romulus and Remus and conclude with the fall of Constantinople. I think folks tend to forget that history teaches lessons through metaphor, not direct correspondence. We can view things like the Corn Laws and the chaos of the late Republic and draw lessons from them, certainly, but, strictly speaking, each moment in history is unique, in the same way the lives of individuals are unique. We can learn lessons, but our circumstances will not be the same as our ancestors.
My other observation is that there are people who are eager for the apocalypse, too. They love to think about the end of the world (I’ve listened to my fair share of “Coast to Coast”). The idea of America’s death fits a romantic ideal of someplace that was once great and is now lost, sort of like Atlantis. As far as I can see, these folks have been present in many cultures, not just American culture, and maybe they’re just a personality type which shows up in any group of people.
Well, we have Caligula reincarnated as a female presidential candidate. I think most people like to compare the US to Rome as far as “rotting” from the inside out.
ping
Excellent.
A high school teacher of mine opined that the Renaissance stifled the development of arts and culture in Europe because it encouraged slavish imitation of antiquity rather than continued innovation along the lines of the High Middle Ages.
Clearly an overstatement of the case, but it has some merit. I wonder how many Renaissance poets could have written decent and memorable Italian or French verse rather than the substandard and wholly unmemorable Latin hexameters they left behind.
Good Info.
Saw a recent DVD on the subject of England and it NOT being
in the Dark, but after Rome left their shores, became a beacon. An island of culture in a sea of Dark. A flourishing of religion and education.
Caligula was Emperor BEFORE Rome peaked, and Rome lasted over 400 years after Caligula's reign.
The stupidest analogies I see are Social Cons trying to compare the moral decay of Rome to the US.
They forget that Rome rose and peaked as a pagan empire rife with various forms of immorality, and Rome only fell after it converted to Christianity (not that that was necessarily the cause). People have vague and fuzzy notions of decadence and immorality in Rome, and the timing of such, and people think that things only got immoral and crazy as Rome declined, which is not true.
Infanticide was rampant and routine for the entire rise and peak of Rome.
Have you ever read "The Waning of the Middle Ages?" It is available for free online.
"It does not matter that the people love me, it matters more that they FEAR me!"
Gibbon is the most famous person to claim that the adoption of Christianity led to the fall of the empire, as it effectively put a line, if not a wall, between throne and altar. Not very plausible IMHO. In reality, it was a declining population, inability to raise large armies, and the increasingly difficult task of collecting taxes from subjugated peoples that caused Rome's ultimate dissolution.
I agree and the Caligula comparison was based more on character rather than timing. Also, most fail to realize when the Empire split the Byzantines prospered for ~1000 years.
Good point. Before Ezra Pound underwent his transformation from Interesting Crazy Poet to World's Worst Economist, he was obsessed with the troubadours and the duecento poets too - and look at the dedication of The Wasteland.
Rome didn’t fall. It moved. Also, it is still here.
And, unlike Rome, Medieval Europe was able to build a prosperous society without Rome's heavy reliance on slavery.
“The tired analogy of imperial decline and fall”
Amen!
“The US is indeed in the middle of another gloomy ride around the
“America as Rome” theme park of half-understood history lessons. “
Too bad this recent book (see below) didn’t get some mention/discussion in the column.
As the answer to the question “Are We (USA) Rome?” seems to be “partially”.
The author of the book linked below did a nice presentation on his
book on BookTV (C-Span2; weekends) about a month ago).
Are We Rome?: The Fall of an Empire and the Fate of America
by Cullen Murphy
a life of decadence is short lived - whether it be corporate or individual
| The frequent comparison of the United States and Rome is quite unwarranted or undeserved flattery. Rome's actual control of much of the Mediterranean (Middle Earth) world for around 500 years (or more) beats out the United States' global 'hegemony' of some 50 years by a long shot. Rome forcibly and coercively held together many cultures while successfully assimilating many of those cultures to a more Roman one. From Spanish dinero to the Iraqi dinar, from Romania's Constanta to Algeria's Constantine, Roman influence permeates much of the world, West or otherwise, today (-ia is a Latin designation of land/country). The closest the United States has is the ascendancy of English to the main international language. But whether this would have been done without the British is debatable. Even if the United States provided the incentive for the uptake of English, the British Empire laid down the framework and infrastructure for it. Furthermore, English, along with most Western languages, is written using the Roman/Latin alphabet. Two thousand years from now--if the world lasts that long--will the the United States have nearly the lasting impact and influence on the world that Rome has had? Highly questionable. Besides, it is also debatable whether the United States even should try to make such an impression on world history. Being isolationist has its advantages, too. |
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