Fear of the FairTax

Townhall.com ^ | September 11, 2007 | Neal Boortz

[Man50D]

Perhaps you’ve noticed lately – it sure hasn’t escaped our attention – that the FairTax proposal (H.R. 25) is really creating quite a stir lately. Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee’s endorsement of the FairTax brought him a second place finish in the Republican Iowa straw poll several weeks ago. No less than six Republican presidential candidates, and one Democrat, endorse the idea, and the GOP’s newest candidate, Fred Thompson, has said that he would sign the bill if it were passed by Congress.

Every single day more and more Americans are becoming familiar with the FairTax and H.R. 25, and they like what they see. They read the book, study the FairTax website and they want to know what they can do to bring this tax reform proposal to fruition. And every single day more and more powerful people inside the Beltway who make their livings off the present tax system become just a bit more concerned.

One of the great surprises since Congressman John Linder, the author of H.R. 25, and I wrote The FairTax Book was the tactic developed by opponents to demonize the proposal. Let’s be clear here. We weren’t surprised that opposition surfaced, we were just surprised at the methodology. After all, Washington is full of very highly-paid individuals who make their living, and a very comfortable one at that, gaming the present tax system.

[xcamel]

Talking the talk is much easier than walking the walk, my friend.

[magellan]

So what? Where is it written that it's going to affect prices?

It's called a competitive market.

If two companies produce similar products at similar costs, and after the cost of production drops, one chooses to keep prices high to maximize profits, and the other decides to lower prices to gain customers, what happens? The other company has to lower its prices too, or it loses customers. This is basic microeconomics.

But this is covered in The Fair Tax Book. Specifically, Boortz uses a T-Shirt business in his example.

And BTW, the corporate taxes aren't removed, they're shifted directly to all consumers in all prices.

Consumers already pay all corporate taxes today. It's already in the price. The shift is really a non-shift.

Also, if anyone opposed to a national retail sales tax instead of the income tax, and happens to live in Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, Wyoming, New Hampshire or Tennessee, I suggest they get together and create a group to lobby those states to implement a state income tax.

[lewislynn]

My income is greatly affected by taxation and tax policy, as well as my employers ability to grant me raises and the like.

There still has to be an end user to your product/service. Imposing a huge tax at the other end of your employer's product/ service won't make those things any better.

[BADROTOFINGER]

Well, I would be walking the walk with more of my own $$$ in my pocket, as far as I can tell.

And also, taking a hit when I buy is far preferable to taking a hit when I cant even choose to do so. With the prebate and some good budgeting, I can save myself money, and improve my lot in life more easily. Isnt that what we are supposed to be doing? If it is, why are we currently getting punished for doing it?

The existing system makes no sense, at least the fair tax puts a measure of the power back where it belongs...JFK

[xcamel]

Gee wiz, another Ph friggin D in business.

Company A adds value to his product or service, continues to pay decent wages and benefits, and stays in business.

Company B cuts prices, hires cheaper labor, or goes off shore, diminishes value and loses customers, and goes bankrupt.

Only an idiot would leave that money on the table.

That's called reality based economics.

[BADROTOFINGER]

Yes, but you are not factoring in the absence of the huge tax PLUS expense already there. As people will still want to make money and do business (it would still be extremely popular, I guess you are just going to have to trust me on that one) whether it makes things any better or not remains to be seen. The end user remains a consumer and pays the tax in a different way. Unless he wants to take his business and go home and pout and cease to make money, he will play ball, just like he does now...JFK

[xcamel]

The fallacy is that you will have “more money” in your pocket at the end of the year - you won’t. I bet based on human nature an money being what it is, you’ll have a whole lot less than you think.

[magellan]

"You’d be happy with every day being 30% tax day?"

Every day already is 30% tax day. The government already takes about 30% out of your pay every single day you work. If you punch a time card, the Federal Government takes 30% of what you earn.

Too many taxes are invisible today. Does anyone know how much they pay per gallon in gasoline tax? Does anyone know how much tax they already pay on a six-pack of beer, before the sales tax is added?

How about we outlaw withholding, and make people have to write a check to the feds every month? Oh, and if you miss a payment, the IRS would come knocking.

Too many people like the convenience of the current system. These people are like frogs being boiled.

[magellan]

"Only an idiot would leave that money on the table."

Are you referring to customers leaving money on the table, or businesses leaving money on the table?

Have you ever noticed how when gas prices fall, and one station on one side of the street drops its prices, the other one across the street immediately does the same?

[xcamel]

Here is new data for 2001. The share of total income taxes paid by the top 1% fell to 33.89% from 37.42% in 2000. This is mainly because their income share (not just wages) fell from 20.81% to 17.53%. However, their average tax rate actually rose slightly from 27.45% to 27.50%.

The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes. The top 1% is paying more than ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%! And who earns what? The top 1% earns 17.53 (2000: 20.81%) of all income. The top 5% earns 31.99 (2000: 35.30%). The top 10% earns 43.11% (2000: 46.01%); the top 25% earns 65.23% (2000: 67.15%), and the top 50% earns 86.19% (2000: 87.01%) of all the income.

So, unless you're in the top 50% - you could care less. Your net tax rate is just a little north of 17% if anything at all.

[xcamel]

Gas contains more tax than anything else you buy - except maybe cigarettes. It's not a valid comparison. Gas stations make no money on gas - they make money on the coffee and snacks - and you'll notice how much those prices go up when there is a "gas war" - and we're talking about business here, not consumers.

BTW - more than half the states now have laws against gas wars, but I bet you're not asking why milk is now $5 a gallon.....

[magellan]

"So, unless you're in the top 50% - you could care less. Your net tax rate is just a little north of 17% if anything at all."

17% income tax. Plus 7.65% for Social Security and Medicare. That's pushing 25%. Plus another 7.65% "employer contribution" to Social Security and Medicare, which is essentially a portion of your compensation taxed at 100%.

But thanks for pointing out the fact most people pay little to no income taxes. Apparently you are a fan of a progressive tax structure.

You seem to not know about The Fair Tax's prebate, which makes The Fair Tax a progressive tax.

[aShepard]

Now, that is not all:

...........Eliminates the cumbersome IRS Tax code and replaces it with a National Sales tax of 30%(income tax equivalent of 23%)..................

So let’s start with a National Tax of 30%!

To get to the paperwork savings, now the states must eliminate income taxes, and go with the sales tax.

My state income tax (RI) is about 7% of income, so I’ll add 7% to the National 30%; now up to 37%

My state sales tax is at 7% of most goods, (food, cheap clothing exempt) so I’ll add another 7% to the spending tax. Now my tax rate is up to 44% of purchases.

So now if I buy an auto at say $20k, my financing agreement will indicate that, after taxes, my $20k auto now costs $28,800.

My average east coast house of $400k, now costs $575k, my monthly payments must increase by 44% to make the monthly loan payment.

Fair tax is a tough sell, especially for us folks that have already paid our tax dues, have invested our excess cash, and now will need to pay consumption taxes on what we have already saved.

No Way!

[xcamel]

No, it just makes it the worlds biggest entitlement, welfare system, and transfer of wealth to those unwilling to work for it.

[magellan]

"Only an idiot would leave that money on the table."

"we're talking about business here, not consumers."

Thanks for clearing that up. If you think businesses would be idiots to leave money on the table, you have to believe consumers are idiots because they are willing to voluntarily pay it.

[xcamel]

Great post, Shep.
Right on the money.

[xcamel]

you obviously need some remedial reading lesons.

[magellan]

Nope. Been reading at a 12th grade level since I was in seventh grade.

[groanup]

So, unless you're in the top 50% - you could care less. Your net tax rate is just a little north of 17% if anything at all.

X, you think that is a fair way to collect taxes? No? How about a way to end the Republic by having over 50% of the voters vote themselves largess from the treasury? No? Well guess what, by your illustration the bottom 50% of wage earners will soon out vote the top 50%. What happens then? Can you tell me why the FairTax would be worse than such a scenario. No? I know you won't answer that. How do I know? Because you have been asked the question repeatedly and you merely hide under your desk while the adults do the debating.

[xcamel]

You’re becoming a real twit. I guess you should call it the “Insult Tax”, where you would be more comfortable discussing it.