Posted on 09/04/2007 7:48:46 PM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast
Ben Stein: Gestapo Tactics Got Larry Craig
Tuesday, September 4, 2007 7:39 PM
Former Sen. Larry Craig didn't do anything illegal and was railroaded with "Gestapo tactics," says actor and commentator Ben Stein.
Appearing recently on Your World With Neil Cavuto program, Stein remarked: "I don't like the idea that people are sitting in the next stall from you at a public bathroom listening to whether or not you tap your foot. This is, as I said, Gestapo tactics. Gestapo, Gestapo, Gestapo. It's not America."
Stein says Craig, who was arrested June 11 by Minneapolis police and pled guilty to a charge of disorderly conduct, is a victim of "pure police entrapment and thuggery."
"The police have real work to do at the airport," Stein says. "It's an airport, hello. There are security problems at airports. Al-qaida: Are you listening? Our security people are entrapping perfectly honest U.S. senators in lavatory stalls instead of looking for you terrorists."
Stein charges that police intimidated Craig into pleading guilty to disorderly conduct after he was arrested for tapping his foot in a bathroom stall at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport.
Police say foot tapping is a common overture used to signal interest in a sexual encounter. Minneapolis police had reportedly made several arrests in recent months for lewd conduct in restrooms at the airport.
"A policeman drags him off, or verbally drags him off, starts browbeating him, essentially threatens he's going to ruin his career if the guy doesn't plead guilty right away," Stein tells Cavuto. "This is Gestapo tactics in Minneapolis-St. Paul. It's not nice."
Stein adds that it was wrong for GOP stalwarts to join the drumbeat for Craig's resignation: "This is some way to treat the people who have been loyal members of your party for many years. What did he do wrong? Suppose he was soliciting for gay sex. Gay sex is not illegal in the United States, the Supreme Court has said that. If it were illegal, it would be a different story. It's not illegal. He didn't do anything illegal, they're just bludgeoning him into a confession."
The Craig scandal points out a fundamental question about the balance of political power, according to Stein.
"On trumped up charges, they bring down the legislator and change the balance of power within the United States generally," he says. "This is a really serious case of police overreaching and the victim here is Larry Craig and the Constitution of the United States."
Craig has represented Idaho in Congress for over a quarter of a century and was up for re-election next year.
-—Are you suggesting that all homosexuals are pedophiles?-—
Hardly! I’m suggesting our children use public restrooms.
I thought maybe he just wasn't smart enough to read!
So what if Craig was sending a signal? Ben Stein pointed out that it is not illegal to be gay in the U.S. and therefore, Craig did nothing wrong. Now - if he were looking to perform said act with another fellow in the restroom, THAT would be illegal. But the fact that he was merely tapping is foot in a restroom that was not in the immediate proximity of his gate is no cause for an arrest.
His morals are definitely askew, no doubt. He more than likely DID go to that particular restroom looking to meet someone. But again - that in and of itself is NOT illegal.
Ben is right. What kind of sleazy freak cop would volunteer for the gay sex public bathroom detail. Like a toilet brush and nutty aunt in the basement, some things are best left out of sight and mind.
there was cruising going on in this bathroom. people began complaining. a lot, evidently. so the cops found out how the cruising was done. they found out about the hand and foot signals. the peeking through the stalls. everything.
the cops looked in their Ohio penal law and found the definition for disorderly conduct. they were amazed how ambiguous this law reads, and they concluded that because the behavior in that bathroom was in public and offensive to the public, these acts constituted disorderly conduct. they arrested multiple offenders. one of the offenders happened to be a US senator.
if it was heterosexual sex and other people found it to be offensive, the same result would have occurred.
But the officer at the time implied that it would all be hushed up if Craig would only plead guilt and be on his way.
Investigative Sergeant Dave Karsnial#4211 (OK) and Detective Noel Nelson #62 (NN) INTERVIEW WITH Larry Craig (LC)
Case 07002008
LC: Am I gonna have to fight you in court?
OK: No. No. I'm not gonna go to court u11ess you want me there.
LC: 'Cause I don't want to be in court either.
OK: Ok. I don’t either.
(inaudible)
DK: Um, here's the way it works, urn, You’ll you'll be released today. okay.
LC: Okay
DK: All right. I. I know I can bring you to jail, but that's not my goal here, okay? (inaudible)
LC: Don't do that. You You
DK: I’m not going to bring you to jail
LC: You solicited me.
DK: Okay. We’re going to get. We’re going to get into that. (inaudible)
LC: Okay.
DK: But there’s the, there there’s two ways, yes. You can, you can, ah, you can go to court. You can plead guilty.
LC: Yep.
DK: There’ll be a fine. You won’t have to explain anything. (inaudible) I know.
LC: Right.
DK: And you’ll pay a fine, you be (inaudible) done. Or if you want to plead not guilty, as, and I, I can’t make these decisions for you.
LC: No, no. Just tell me where I am (inaudible) I need to make this flight.
- Craig stood outside Karsnia's stall, more than once peering through the crack and pulling on his fingers in a suggestive way, and also making suggestive motions with his feet;
- After entering the stall on the seated Karsnia's left, Craig sat down, tapped his toes several times and then pushed his right foot under the stall wall and into Karsnia's stall where he bumped his right foot against Karsnia's left foot;
- Craig then reached across his seated body with his left hand (wedding ring showing) in order to run his palm along the bottom of the stall wall between himself and Karsnia from the front towards the rear in a suggestive manner.
It's clear that Sgt. Karsnia did not invent these three crucial facts about what transpired in that restroom. And since Karsnia did not know who Sen. Larry Craig was before all of this transpired, the suggestion that Karsnia did anything other than carefully observe Craig's behavior with the intent of arresting him if he tried to initiate lewd behavior in a public restroom is without merit. Also, the notion that a United States Senator could be browbeaten by a Minneapolis cop into pleading guilty in such an embarrassing case is ludicrous.
Ben Stein's a smart guy, but about this case he's mistaken.
Can cops be gay?
Ben makes some good points. Not that I’m saying Craig is a saint. But the whole episode was just handled badly.
It is interesting too that defenders of Michael Vick say he should have his day in court and that he has been convicted of no crime yet. They are right. But Sen Craig, who did not do anything as serious or violent as Vick is alleged to have done, was not extended same defense.
So if I go into a bathroom in that state and take a crap I can be arrested for crapping in public! Damn, not going to go there!
Yes, right after the incident. From the continuation of the above transcript I posted earlier, same date and time:
DK: Okay. Um, ah, I’m just going to read you your rights real quick, okay? You got it on? [the tape recorder]
NN: Yep.
DK: Okay.
DK: Ah, the date is 6/11/07 at 1228 hours. Um, Mr. Craig?
LC: Yes.
DK: Sorry about that. (Ringing phone)
DK: You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer now or have a present, a lawyer present now or anytime during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed to you without cost. Do you understand each of these rights the way I have explained them to you?
LC: I do.
DK: DO you wish to talk to us at this time?
LC: I do.
Thank GOD for Ben Stein!!!! He agrees with my stance since the beginning of this - or since we knew the facts from the police report and the taped interrogation. (download that tape because it will disappear soon, I am sure)......
God bless you Ben Stein! God bless you Rush!
Senator Craig - fight with all you have!
no but
I figured stein to be. otherwise what’s his interest in defending the rights of reststop cruisers? /ebonic they be ripe for taking down. ebonics/ if this idiot lets himself be implicated like this what if the people doing the implicating were blackmailers? He’s a US Senator. Hello. You must purge IDIOTS who set themselves up to be compromised with the utmost urgency. And yeah people that disagree with me, naw you just thought.
He didn’t say it would be “hushed up.” He’s saying plead guilty and you won’t do jail, only pay a fine.
The fact is, the guy can be guilty but the tactics used to expose him can still be denounced as inappropriate. See McCarthyism in the 50s for an example. The Communists ferreted out by McCarthy may have indeed been Communists but most people think the tactics he used to find them (naming names, blacklists, loyalty oaths, etc) were deplorable.
“you people just don’t understand what happened on a very elemental level.”
Here’s how I see it. There was a time when this behavior, especially in the public domain was so far marginalized to the fringes and real men would not expect nor wait around for their government to take action. That was because it never was conceivable that a six member representative sample of the public sitting on a jury would ever convict for such street administered extra judicial “justice” People proceeded with common values. Today that is all gone as we live in fear and turn blind eyes. We are no longer a free people.
So we just have to let the perverts run wild in order to preserve our freedoms?
No, he said that he wouldn't call the media if Craig would just plead guilty and pay the fine.
DK: Okay. So we’ll start over, you’re gonna get out of here. You’re gonna have to pay a fine and that will be it. Okay. I don’t call media, I don’t do any of that type of crap.That's clearly a threat to call the media if Craig doesn't plead.
LC: Fine.
In what part of the Universe is foot tapping sex? I’m sorry, I must have missed that biology lesson.
susie
I’ve seen cops in my town carrying out a decoy operation on certain evenings in a certain part of town. A woman dressed not-so-provocatively stands out on a street corner. After a short time a car pulls up and a conversation ensues. The woman is mic’d. The conversation recorded. Unless and until the mark actually talks about the sex act in exchange for money (a firm solicitation), it is nothing more than a conversation. Once money is mentioned - the cops move in and arrest him.
Now, that being said - I did not hear of any incident where Craig and the cop talked money in exchange for a “meeting”. If there was, then THAT would have been cause to arrest him.
From everything I’ve heard and read, this was nothing more than a non-verbal conversation between someone who wanted to meet someone else via sign language.
Nothing in the law books that says two people cannot get together no matter what form of communication they use. Those gestures described could have just as well meant “Hey buddy, wanna go get some coffee at Starbucks?”
Show me where in the statutes it says that you are not allowed to converse either verbally or non-verbally in the mens room and then I’ll believe he’s guilty of a crime.
The man has cracked morals, but he did not commit a crime.
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