Posted on 08/31/2007 9:16:22 AM PDT by Abathar
SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Authorities said they removed nearly 80,000 rounds of ammunition from the home of a South Bend man who warned that the world was going to end.
South Bend police and federal agents blocked off streets around Kevin Rieder's home for six hours Wednesday while they removed the ammunition.
Rieder, 38, was arrested Wednesday and charged with illegal possession of ammunition while subject to a restraining order, Assistant U.S. Attorney Donald Schmidt said.
The restraining order had been taken out by an ex-girlfriend, Schmidt said.
Rieder told employees at a gun shop where he bought 18,000 rounds that he believed the world was going to end, officials said.
He was in custody Friday morning, awaiting a Tuesday bail and detention hearing.
I would think that the right to keep and bear arms would be more effective if we also had the right to keep ammo.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1889432/posts?page=140#140
I don’t know but I am thinking that 10,000 primers, loose, in casings or in loaded rounds is the maximum number that a person might be permitted to have in a residence if you are under the International Fire Code, CHAPTER 33 EXPLOSIVES AND FIREWORKS, Section 3306 - Small Arms Ammunition; there is a restriction limiting you to 10,000 primers, 20 lbs of black powder and 50 lbs of smokeless powder.
Just maybe, this is the kind of thing that could enable your insurance company to back out of paying for your home if it burned down.
It might be something to check into or keep your ammo dispersed outside of your home, limiting your inhome supply to the numbers given.
Do you have to forfeit them to the LEOs or can you ask a friend to secure them for you?
How do we protect ourselves from.....BANANAS!?
if so - then hes a Jehovahs witness
A smart individual would be prudent to not keep all firearms and ammo in the same gun cabinet if in ownership of more than a couple guns.
One mishap or whatever the circumstance and all could be lost.
Insurane companies could have an impact on firearm ownership. Some already do. More back door 2nd Amendment manipulation.
Thats why it is best to keep ones possessions to themselves. You never really know who your friends are in a time of crisis.
Just being a part of this discussion could be enough to make somebody’s list if bragging about how much ammo and guns one has. Even if they don’t actually have a stated amount, some would argue probable cause has been identified and some judge could go along with some harassment charges.
We are not talking law here. We are talking an agenda.
Yup, I had a homeowner policy and one day got a call from them, said they were updating their records wanted to know how many guns I had and what kind they were.
I asked why they wanted to know, said in case I made a claim they would have a record.
I said I really don't want to tell what I have and in fact just cancel my policy.
........ pennies in one basket.
I'm not entirely certain, but I think you can secure them with a friend. The law forbids possession, not ownership.
But you have to move smartly after the RO is issued, since technically at that point you are guilty of a federal felony, but if you can unload the stuff, or as you say secure it with someone else, before the federales come for you, you'll probably be OK.
Humiliated and made as hell, but OK.
Room enough for lots of speculation.
Thanks.
I don't *know* either, but the Code seems to only cover "loose" powder, and "loose" primers. Those would seem more likely to detonate accidentally, but not to much effect. From the Georgia version (each state amends the code to suit itself, and this is a substitute provision)
"3306.5.1.3 Small arms primers or percussion caps - 10,000 on display in a non-sprinklered building; 25,000 on display in a sprinklered building. "
Nothing there about a limit on the number loaded into cases or live rounds. It also seems to speak to gun shops, or sporting goods stores, not home storage, with "on display" provision.
BTW, there is a 2006 version of the international code out which replaces the 2003 version. Dallas Texas adopted the 2006 version with very few changes, not including the section of interest.
One rather sick feature of these "codes" is that they are copywrighted, and except for the changes each state or country makes, aren't available for public access, except for purchase, at libraries, and at the state government offices concerned, so it's difficult to just look up the provisions on the 'net. However, there was an error in the primer provision section, and I found the corrected version:
3306.5.2.3 Small arms primers. Commercial stocks of small arms primers shall be stored as follows:
1. Quantities not to exceed 750,000 small arms primers stored in a building shall be arranged such that not more than 100,000 small arms primers are stored in any one pile and piles are at least 15 feet (4572 mm) apart.
Thus there seems to be two different provisions, one for display and one for storage, but both seem to apply to commercial endeavors.
I did find an exception to the *fireworks* section of the Lincoln/Lancaster (Nebraska) code, which excepts the following from the requirements, whatever they might be.
The possession, storage and use of not more than one pound (0.454 kg) of commercially manufactured sporting black powder, 20 pounds (9 kg) of smokeless powder and 10,000 small arms primers for hand loading of small arms ammunition for personal consumption.
Again the limit seems to be on loose powder (meaning not loaded into cartridges) and "primers *for* loading", not loaded into cases or cartridges.
Also excepted is:
3. The possession, storage and use of small arms ammunition when packaged in accordance with DOTn packaging requirements.
I found other codes, some of which excepted primers, powder and ammunition for *personal use* entirely.
If the world ends, he wasted a lot of money.
4. The possession, transportation, storage, and use of small arms ammunition when packaged in accordance with DOT packaging requirements. 5. Commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty (50) pounds, percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers, if the black powder is intended to be uses solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms or antique devices.
It's also clear in context that the 10,000 primers, etc applies to display for retail trade and the 100,000 primer limit in a pile and 750,000 total also applies to retail stores (as opposed to wholesalers or manufacturers, who have their own storage requirements, involving bunkers and such, but with no overall quantity limits.
2006 International Fire Code
The possession, storage and use of not more than one pound (0.454 kg) of commercially manufactured sporting black powder, 20 pounds (9 kg) of smokeless powder and 10,000 small arms primers for hand loading of small arms ammunition for personal consumption.
Just to be on the safe side then, I would make a serious recommendation that nobody maintain a ammo supply of over 10,000 rounds within the confines of their residence.
Everything in excess of that should be stored in a lockable outside shed, preferably metal.
This will also protect the homeowner from having the insurance company use their legal staff to try and weasel out of paying a house fire claim.
I know that 10 pounds of black powder will make a serious bang when it ignites, so I have no objections to seeing the decrease from 10 pounds to 1 pound. I would hate to see a firefighter getting killed or injured because of unresponsible powder storage.
Back in my serious reloading days, I did it all in a separate shed. I built a 3'X 3' X 4' open top space inside the shed of concrete blocks filled rebar and concrete. That's where I stored powder, primers and loaded rounds. My thinking was that if there was a fire when I wasn't home all of the blast force would be directed straight up. I didn't want shrapnel zinging out of the building horizontally.
The other thing that caught my eye was;
"3. The possession, storage and use of small arms ammunition when packaged in accordance with DOTn packaging requirements.
Does this mean that if ammo is rearranged and stored in plain old cardboard boxes that we are in violation of some other rule?
Safe from what? Fire, or jack booted thugs? Either way many or most states seem to make an exception for loaded rounds kept for personal use.
10,000 rounds would only be 10 cases of surplus and/or reloaded, 7.62x51. What if you have serious belt fed machine gun habit? I know one guy, a software type and ex Army, active, and Guard, with a 1919A1, and at least one M2 Carbine. You can believe he's got 10,000 rounds of ammo on hand most of the time.He's also got an M79 grenade launcher that he made from a kit, with a legally registered receiver. All his NFA weapons are legal. (The sheriff in Bexar Country (San Antonio), where we both used to liv,e is good about signing the ATF form).
Bottom line, check your own state's code, and local codes as well, which may or may not follow the IFC or their own state code exactly.
>Safe from what? Fire, or jack booted thugs?<
Most certainly the jack booted thugs, should the day arise and the legal dept. of your home insurance company because “ignorance of the law is no excuse.”
It is probably a good time when we all should try to determine just what laws we are living under.
Why did they close off the street? Were the pantywaists afraid that a round might explode when they touched it?
Bunch of drama queens.
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