Debating Ron Paul

National Ledger ^ | Aug 29, 2007 | JB Williams

[PlainOleAmerican]

Ron Paul supporters are fast making a name for themselves on the web. Not because they are just web savvy, but because they have proven themselves to be the best at hacking on-line polls, invalidating conservative polling data on behalf of their candidate. It seems that even Democrat 527 MoveOn.org is now onboard the Ron Paul anti-war train.

Despite the fact that presidential candidate Ron Paul can not score better than 3% in any legitimate national poll, his supporters claim he is “the conservative” candidate to beat in the 2008 Republican race for the White House. Despite his less than conservative voting record in congress and his Teddy Kennedy like position on the war on terror in Iraq, his supporters think he is the most “conservative” candidate in the race. How?

[MEGoody]

Uh, is that a picture of Stan Hardy (Of Laurel and Hardy fame)? Sure looks like him.

[MEGoody]

Sounds like a good idea to me. He will suck a lot of anti-American surrender votes from the dims.

Yep. The Paul supports are working on recruiting from moveon.org membership (as reported on other threads), so it's pretty clear who it is they appeal to.

[SJackson]

If these folks throw enough money at him, he’ll change his mind about a third party run...and these folks have money and they ain’t happy with Hillary or any other Democrat who failed to pull out of Iraq the moment they took control of congress.

That's certainly possible. In that event, or should the LP or CP offer their support, I doubt he'd be a factor.

[MEGoody]

Isn't that what grassroots are supposed to do, i.e. recruiting politically active people to support their candidate?

Yep, and it is tells a lot about the candidate himself where his 'grass roots' folks go to recruit.

[SJackson]

A little myopic aren't we? Paul is against this nation-building mess we are involved in, that's all. He supported going after Bin Laden and still does

That's not true. He's supportive of going after bin Laden and key associates, he's not supportive of our actions in Afghanistan. He supports an immediate withdrawl from Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain; the removal of all American presence in the middle east. On that issue he's to the left of all the Dem canidates save Kuchinich.

[MEGoody]

Who cares where they go?

I do. Anyone who claims to be running as a conservative but can get supporters from moveon.org is not someone I could ever support. (What kind of concessions is the guy going to make in order to win those supporters over? Ron's already shown himself to be a hypocrite when it comes to fiscal responsibility - witness the earmarks for the shrimping industry in his district - so I have no doubt he'd compromise other things if it meant getting more votes.)

[SJackson]

Or to the right of them. Depends on your perspective. The GOP used to be a party of non-intervention.

In the real world, support for the war lies largely on the right, opposition on the left. The most hysterical opposition on the far left. If you're suggesting the Ron Paul and his supporters have left the Republican plantation to a degree that they find common cause with codepink and moveon, you're absolutely right, they have.

I'm not that familiar with American history. Will you support your contension that The GOP used to be a party of non-intervention with some credible examples. I'm looking for Republican Presidents in time of international crisis who practiced non-intervention.

[txhurl]

Some other freepers and myself have noticed the PaulMauls avoid good-news-from-Iraq threads and some even attempt to derail them.

This kinda gives credence to my theory that:

* They have the 20% Libertarian vote locked in
* They think they have 10-15% of the rat vote
* They cannot afford to lose any R voters who might come back around when the surge shows success- 10%.

[steve-b]

The accusation is "hacking" (the felony of illicit computer access) not "spamming" (the impolite posting of multiple votes).

Please try to keep up with the class.

[SJackson]

This article should give you a little history along with examples....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Right_%28United_States%29

Uhh, no, a simplistic article from wikipedia about the "Old Right" and the America First Committee which cites as many Democrats as Republicans doesn't give me any history.

You stated The GOP used to be a party of non-intervention and I requested that you support your contension that The GOP used to be a party of non-intervention with some credible examples. I'm looking for Republican Presidents in time of international crisis who practiced non-intervention.

You provided none. Guess what, there are none in the post WWII period, every Republican has followed interventionist policies at one time or another.

Your article cites Hoover and Harding, Republican Presidents at least. And they along with Coolidge were engaged in continual warfare in Central America. Though I don't think it was an important electoral factor, that was ended by FDR's Good Neighbor Policy, so I suppose you could attempt to argue that Republican interventionism let to a "non-interventionist" President, though a Democrat. Your analogy doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

BTW, I'm not sure I'd lood to Hoover or Coolidge as examples for Republican's to follow anyway, I suggest you consider Garfield. He engaged in a non-interventionist foreign policy while in office.

[John D]

That Paul fellar is really tearing them up in public support across the fruited plain. Paul's numbers: Fox News: 3% Gallup: 3% Quinnipiac: 2% CNN: 1% USA Today: 2% Newsweek: 2%

He is also really getting the endorsements:

Endorsements '08 The rapid pace of the 2008 White House hunt has sparked a separate hard-fought contest among candidates -- for endorsements from members of Congress. The Hill will maintain a running tally of the race for lawmaker support based on extensive research and daily contact with campaigns. The list reflects publicly committed backers of 2008 presidential hopefuls rather than members' private leanings or inclinations.
Republican Candidates
Former Mass. Gov. Mitt Romney (R)(30)
Sen. Wayne Allard (R-Colo.) Sen. Bob Bennett (R-Utah) Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) Rep. Robert Aderholt (R-Ala.) Rep. Rodney Alexander (R-La.) Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (R-Fla.) Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.) Rep. John Campbell (R-Calif.) Rep. Mike Conaway (R-Texas) Rep. Vernon Ehlers (R-Mich.) Rep. Tom Feeney (R-Fla.) Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.) Rep. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.) Rep. Joe Knollenberg (R-Mich.) Rep. Ron Lewis (R-Ky.) Rep. John Linder (R-Ga.) Rep. Jim McCrery (R-La.) Rep. Buck McKeon (R-Calif.) Rep. Thomas Petri (R-Wis.) Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.) Rep. Ralph Regula (R-Ohio) Rep. Hal Rogers (R-Ky.) Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.) Rep. Bill Shuster (R-Pa.) Rep. Mike Simpson (R-Idaho) Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) Rep. Ed Whitfield (R-Ky.)
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) (27)
Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) Sen. Gordon Smith (R-Ore.) Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.) Sen. John Warner (R-Va.) Rep. Spencer Bachus (R-Ala.) Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart (R-Fla.) Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart (R-Fla.) Rep. Mike Castle (R-Del.) Rep. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) Rep. Ric Keller (R-Fla.) Rep. Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) Rep. Ray LaHood (R-Ill.) Rep. Steven LaTourette (R-Ohio) Rep. Dan Lungren (R-Calif.) Rep. Chip Pickering (R-Miss.) Rep. Todd Platts (R-Pa.) Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.) Rep. Rick Renzi (R-Ariz.) Rep. John Shadegg (R-Ariz.) Rep. Chris Shays (R-Conn.) Rep. John Shimkus (R-Ill.) Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.)
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) (22)
Sen. David Vitter (R-La.) Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) Rep. Mary Bono (R-Calif.) Rep. Charles Boustany (R-La.) Rep. Charlie Dent (R-Pa.) Rep. David Dreier (R-Calif.) Rep. Phil English (R-Pa.) Res. Com. Luis Fortuno (R-P.R.) Rep. Vito Fossella (R-N.Y.) Rep. Jim Gerlach (R-Pa.) Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-Calif.) Rep. Frank LoBiondo (R-N.J.) Rep. Candice Miller (R-Mich.) Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) Rep. Jon Porter (R-Nev.) Rep. George Radanovich (R-Calif.) Rep. Dave Reichert (R-Wash.) Rep. Ed Royce (R-Calif.) Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Texas) Rep. Jim Walsh (R-N.Y.) Rep. Jerry Weller (R-Ill.)
Former Sen. Fred Thompson (R-Tenn.) (18)**
Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) Rep. Gresham Barrett (R-S.C.) Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.) Rep. Steve Buyer (R-Ind.) Rep. David Davis (R-Tenn.) Rep. John Duncan (R-Tenn.) Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) Rep. Don Manzullo (R-Ill.) Rep. Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.) Rep. Jeff Miller (R-Fla.) Rep. Sue Myrick (R-N.C.) Rep. Adam Putnam (R-Fla.) Rep. Lee Terry (R-Neb.) Rep. Zack Wamp (R-Tenn.) Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) Rep. Roger Wicker (R-Miss.) ** Thompson has not formally declared his candidacy
Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) (6)
Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas) Rep. Terry Everett (R-Ala.) Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.) Rep. Ralph Hall (R-Texas) Rep. Jim Saxton (R-N.J.) Rep. Bill Young (R-Fla.)
Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) (0)
But he does have about 10-15 Paulie girls

[PlainOleAmerican]

Maybe you should study which six multi-national corporations own and operate 80% of all TV, Radio, Newspaper, Magazine, book publishing and movie companies in the U.S. and feed material to the other 20% they don’t own and control.

Then take a moment to study where 90% of the political money goes to from those corporations and their employees.

[mnehring]

Not defending Paul here, but with Congress’ numbers the way they are, does anyone want their endorsement?

[PlainOleAmerican]

Can you explain how a 28 year career politician like Hunter could last in congress for 28 years without making a national name for himself as a leader?

Then explain why the conservative core of the Republican Party looked at all RNC candidates and said, not thanks, we’ll just draft Thompson?