Posted on 08/28/2007 4:39:18 PM PDT by Bigun
The People Must Demand The Fair Tax
By Doug Patton
August 28, 2007
Last year, during the United States Senate race in Nebraska, Republican challenger Pete Ricketts suggested that every option must be considered when looking at ways to reform our federal tax system. Among the list of alternatives Ricketts said should be on the table was a national sales tax known simply as the "Fair Tax."
The Democrat incumbent, U.S. Sen. Ben Nelson, launched an attack on his opponent that was, at best, distorted and condescending, at worst, irrational demagoguery. One would have thought that Ricketts had suggested stealing all the assets of the poor and handing them over to Warren Buffet and Bill Gates.
Recently, the panel of pundits on ABC's "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," discussing the apparent rise in popularity of former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee's presidential campaign message, scoffed at Huckabee's unabashed promotion of the Fair Tax.
George Will, the token "conservative" on the panel, brushed it aside with the disbelief of an elitist who cannot understand the burden of the average worker who would love to take home his or her entire paycheck, as the Fair Tax would allow him or her to do. Will opined that Huckabee's second place showing in the Iowa straw poll was even more amazing given the fact that "he supported a national sales tax of thirty percent, which means that if you buy a one million dollar house, you'll be writing a check to the government for three hundred thousand dollars." Of course, the others on the panel readily agreed.
The elites of this country, who buy those million-dollar homes, are not enamored with the Fair Tax. They would be if they took the time to understand its appeal.
The Fair Tax would replace all federal income taxes. No more federal withholding. No more Social Security withholding. No more Medicare withholding. No more stealing from the paychecks of American workers before they even see it and then pretending to give them a refund, without interest, at the end of the year. No more saving receipts for tax deductions. No more IRS audits. No more April 15th.
Instead, the Fair Tax would put us in control. All consumer items would be taxed. Business purchases would not. By allowing us to make the determination about what we buy and when we buy it, the ability of our legislators to manipulate our behavior is eliminated. That is why the elites don't like it. They can't control the public's spending habits under such a system.
The current federal tax system is broken. It cannot be fixed. Since the inception of the federal income tax with the passage of the 16th Amendment in 1913, federal corruption and control have turned it into a Frankenstein monster that torments the people and serves the special interests. A tax on a person's income is a tax on production, and as Ronald Reagan once said, "Whatever you tax, you get less of."
Because the poor are forced to spend a disproportionate percentage of their resources to cover the tax on necessities, the Fair Tax hits them the hardest. That issue can be addressed by simply issuing a "prebate" check each month to every household in the country. Unlike disingenuous tax credits, deductions, exemptions and other loopholes in the current income tax code, a prebate check is a clean, honest method of covering the sales tax on food, clothing and shelter - up to the poverty level.
Of course, removing the income tax on corporations will reduce the cost of everything we buy, since corporations don't pay taxes. They simply pass them along to consumers. The Fair Tax plan calculates that removing the corporate income tax will result in a reduction in the cost of virtually every consumer item on the market. In fact, it will just about offset the tax on those products. Imagine paying the same price for something but having your entire paycheck to buy it.
And then there are the billions of dollars that flow untaxed through our economy today: drug dealers, prostitutes, pornographers, foreign tourists. Imagine how much revenue could be raised simply by taxing the things those people consume.
There would be no more audits, no more justifying deductions, and April 15th would become just another spring day. But only if the people stand up to the elites and demand it.
With the help of many and despite the Freepattacks going on with this thread, I see that the Fair Tax might possibly be better than the current system, however, the feasibility legally and politically is in doubt. Without a comprehensive SS reform to go along with abolishing the current payroll tax system, I don’t think there would be enough political support to accomplish passing the legislation. I do believe that a consumption tax is feasible, but still has its problems. I think that is why this is a valuable discussion.
Who said it wouldn’t take 38 states? Where are you reading that it wouldn’t?
There is legislation to repeal the 16th Amendment and there is a passionate commitment by the FairTax sponsors to repeal the 16th Amendment. Where do you read they are thinking to repeal it without following the Constitution?
Are you another one these detractors that erroneously reads what you want to read into statements and then projects that error back to the person making the statement?
That is already in the legislation.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-25
I don’t think there would be enough political support to accomplish passing the legislation.
The movement is growing fiercely and has already become a major issue in the Presidential campaigns. See the scorecard here:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_scorecard
The progression is to first win the debate against the organized disinformation about it. This entails the introduction of Truth in Taxes legislation that bring awareness at the consumption level of the true nature of federal taxation.
The next step will be for the next President to reign in the uniformity clause back to its original limits. From that point there will be a clear path for selection of states to test the FairTax in their own jurisdictions. And from there we know the response will be so great that full enactment will follow.
For sure there are vested interests in the Income tax. Congressional cosponsors of the FairTax and their staffs are well aware of the fight ahead. But they are growing and winning the debate so it is only a matter of time before a critical mass is reached that brings the things described above to bear.
I have not read anything to the contrary in the Fair Tax proposal regarding repealing the 16th amendment, and just wanted to make the point, as I have read a few references to it in the thread. Although, I don’t think that the 16th amendment really affects the proposal in that the right or the power to “lay and collect taxes on income without census or enumeration”, as Congress could simply choose not to lay tax on income voluntarily. However, I do believe when abolishing the payroll tax system and getting into social security reform issues, the proposal opens up a whole new set of problems not needing to be addressed by tax reform. I think these types of threads are particularly useful in getting out information on the various reforms that are out there, such as Fair Tax, NRST, flat tax, and even possibly APT, and what similarities or differences there may be.
The links are not coming up, but would be interested in reading further.
Go here and read:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#38
and here:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#50
Of course enforcement problems regarding social security reporting and tax collection will persist under the FairTax just as they do now under the Income tax but any comparative analysis of the two systems will conclude that problems emerging under the FairTax are much more maneagable. More discussion on this is found here:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#8
Try again:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-25
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_scorecard
Okay, so I am back to my original concern which is retiring the OASDI trust fund IOUs and getting a privitized saving system (although I believe that under a consumption tax the incentive will be to save to avoid paying taxes) that workers have rights to, as with SS they have no rights to there “retirement savings” (I cringe every time I use these terms), which I believe is the only reasonable SS reform. These are critical issues with Fair Tax, and politically it will be a tough fight.
links work good now
So what? Whoever they are, they have less money with which to reduce prices.
"Try narrowing your sample base to viable businesses"
Right. As soon as you explain how you went from your inflated 11% in embedded taxes to 20% when you add "miscellaneous".
The issues of privatized savings for retirement are important issues but are ancillary to the FairTax.
For sure people will be incentivized again to save under the FairTax even in the face of price stability. The act of saving was at one time a very much larger part of American culture. Today it is in so many cases a luxury even if there is a will to follow a saving discipline.
But these are broader issues involving monetary policy and the Federal Reserve. They are indeed important for they are joined at the hip with the Income Tax and have been so since 1913.
Most people ‘in the know’ are aware that Social Security will be insolvent and next year for the first time social security collections will run at a deficit. Despite all, Social Security revenues have been added to the general budget and have been spent. Social Security surpluses exist on ledger paper only. The spending of Social Security surpluses for general purposes shows up as an increase in the National Debt.
The entire problem behind the failing Social Security system is caused by shifting age demographics. As the number of elderly Americans has increased, the number of Americans in lower age demographic strata has not kept up. A civilization can only thrive if there is an encouraging environment for families because it falls to them to bring forth children that will eventually stabilize the age demographics.
France and other countries have responded to this aging problem by encouraging child bearing. The tax burden on French families is incrediibly light with each child they add. France is now in the process of slashing tax rates in many areas as well as following Sweden’s lead in abolishing inheritance or death taxes. These countries are swinging away from socialism through tax reform.
Americans have an opportunity to go one even better with an innovative transparent efficient and unintrusive consumption tax.
The reason the consumption tax was not thought of earlier in American history from 1913 to the 1990s, is because computer technology was not easily available for businesses to tabulate transactions and provide for an NRST accounting.
But today it is entirely feasible to implement a national consumption tax. In other words the FairTax is a byproduct of the information and technology revolution.
What? No owning up to the fact that your ‘creative imagination’ reduced Nike’s actual profits by over 100%?
Show me where I added “miscellaneous”. In post #272 I never discussed anything to do with “miscellaneous” and I haven’t used that word in any post. Perhaps you are confusing me with another poster (I am being diplomatic) or perhaps you are one of the people that read what you want to and then turn around to lambast the writer for writing something that was never wrote!
What is it with you that can’t bring yourself to say “Thank you, I stand corrected”?
Enlighten me on the prebates, and the need for them as an integral part of the Fair Tax plan. Apparently, the system is to tax all goods and services, then return monthly prebates based on household size for those that qualify, thereby leaving the unqualifiers to pay taxes on groceries, and other necessities?
Do you get paid by the post, by the word, or by the distance between your words and the truth?
It would be easy to get passionate about having some of you FairTaxers committed.
This thread is a new low point for the FairTax movement Hostage. You have established a new personal best in that regard.
They are there in an atempt to buy the votes of the liberals by ensuring that the large number of people who don't make a meaningful contribution to our tax revenue now will make even less of a contribution under the FairTax.
It also makes a large number of taxpayers want to root for an increase in the FairTax rate as that will mean a larger goverment allowance check every month. WOooooHoooooo says the poor guy-- More cash and more Christmas!
It has the side "benefit" of putting every man, woman and child in America on the monthly dole from Mommy Sam, and the elected officials will have a shiny new toy with which to buy votes. This is done in the name of "freedom" even though any sane person would say that giving every citizen a monthly handout is a large step in the direction of socialism.
Is Hostage starting to remind you of anyone?
Ask youself that question.
You’ve been at it alot longer than I and most others.
The intellectual content of your contributions is about like this:
“You’re are liar! You’re a drinker of the Kool-Aid! Neener! Neener! Neener!”
This is one of the aspects of FT that concerns me. SSA cannot distribute monthly checks accurately with some 9 million errors annually, and I don’t see how the government will be able increase a single income tax refund into 12 prebates, and ever at a reasonable cost to accomplish this task. More of a pure consumption tax without government payouts may be a better alternative.
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