Hitler was a socialist

johnjayray.tripod.com ^ | John J. Ray

[Renfield]

~~~~~snip~~~~

There is surely no doubt that the man Feser describes sounds very much like a mainstream Leftist by current standards. But who is the man concerned? It is a historically accurate description of Adolf Hitler. Hitler was not only a socialist in his own day but he would even be a mainstream socialist in MOST ways today. Feser does not mention Hitler's antisemitism above, of course, but that too seems once again to have become mainstream among the Western-world Left in the early years of the 21st century. See here for more on that.

One way in which Hitler was unlike modern American Leftist political leaders, however, is that he was to a considerable extent a genuine man of culture. The photo below shows him in white tie and tails attending the Wagner opera festival at Bayreuth in 1939. There is no doubt of his real devotion to opera -- and indeed to classical music generally. Any claim that a devotion to high culture is especially virtuous does therefore tend to be undermined by Hitler's example -- if that is not too ad hominem.

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[stm]

The people you mentioned were COMMUNISTS, not socialists.

[Yaelle]

Nazi is really only short for National - the first two syllables are so pronounced in German. But you are correct about him being a type of Socialist. Remember too that he made so many Folks-things (”of the people,” sort of). Volksbank, Volkswagen, etc.

[Sherman Logan]

17. Anti-Zionist.

[JPJones]

Now doesn’t that sound familiar when considering Hillary? She doesn’t like anything about our way of life and is always saying it all has to change.

Didn't Bill run on a "change" platform?

[TheThinker]

If by Right Wing, you mean patriotic, which is the more understood meaning of the term, then Hitler couldn’t have been Right Wing. Patriotism implies that you don’t want to do harm to your country and wish it to truly progress and prosper. It doesn’t mean that you want you country to be imperialistic.

[JoeA]

name one socialist state that is not ruled by a dictator.

[JoeA]

... that was Mussolini

[ChessExpert]

'Socialism' is by traditional definition 'government ownership of the means of production', with a traditional example typically being the Soviet Union. Similarly, 'fascism' is by definition 'government control of the means of production', with a typical example being Nazi Germany or Italy under Mussolini.

I learned it differently:

Socialism means the government controls the economy
Communism means government ownership of the means of production.

Another distinction is that communism is international socialism. Mussolini, rejecting Marx, discovered that many people responded well to patriotic socialism. He combined Italian patriotism with socialism. He advanced the term fascism which indicated strength through unity as in a bundle of sticks tied together. ("Fasces: a bundle of rods containing an ax with the blade projecting, borne before Roman magistrates as an emblem of official power"). Hitler followed Mussolini’s example of patriotic socialism - National Socialism (NAZISM). There is debate about the actual origin of the term Nazism, but (German) national socialism sums it up pretty well.

Socialism and communism tend toward being anti-market, which they call "anti-capitalist." They all generate support by taking stirring up envy and resentment of the rich.

I too believe Hitler was a socialist as he showed little to no restraint in wielding power, without being a king or emperor while keeping the trappings of legitimate government.

Hillery appears to want unconstrained power. She might play the patriot card if it seems to work. But I think her instincts are more toward international socialism. I haven't heard any rhetoric about nationalizing industry from her. I would not put it past her if it seems to get support.

[gscc]

Her rhetoric does include nationalizing the health care industry, however like the Nazis she seems bent toward controlling through government regulation the means of production.

[Moonman62]

COMMUNISTS are SOCIALISTS.

[gscc]

Socialist are communists with a kinder gentler face but with the same end goals. Kinder and gentler goes well in the West.

[x]

This question comes up over and over again. My two cents is here and here and on other threads.

If somebody says "Hitler was a right-winger like Reagan or Bush" I object. Things were a lot more complicated than that.

The same applies if somebody says "Hitler was a socialist, like Norman Thomas or Olof Palme or Hillary Clinton." It's more complicated than that as well.

Hitler mixed the left-wing and right-wing ideas of his time and place. To make him out to be a simple right-winger or left-winger of our own day would be a mistake.

Left-wingers tend to think the left was always anti-racist, feminist, pacifist, and whatever they dream it is today. They're wrong. American Right-wingers assume that the right was always about capitalism and freedom. They don't know much about the old European right.

People who think that the left is and always was about hearts and flowers and loving-kindness are delusional, but those who think that because they follow Rand or Peikoff or Mises that they are somehow outside of the forces that make for evil in the world are likewise self-deceiving and annoying.

In both cases Hitler and the Nazis aren't seen in themselves, but are just used as sticks to beat the other side.

Hitler's thinking and Churchill's weren't poles apart when it came to things like the welfare state. That was the philosophy of the day. What counts are the differences between Hitler and Churchill, not the differences between Hitler and some fool of a Peikoff.

[ChessExpert]

Agreed.

[sonic109]

Excellent point . I agree %100

[TheSpottedOwl]

Hitler was an asshole. A very sick, sick living organism.

[John123]

Socialist want a collective society of relative equals

Would you say that Chavez of Venezuela or Mugabe of Zimbabwe Socialists?

I think they are dictators using the umbrella of socialism to advance themselves...

[F.J. Mitchell]

I knew there was something about Hitler that I despised.

[PAR35]

Many of the original party leaders were clearly socialist. For the first 10+ years of the party, the socialists were probably stronger than the nationalists. It was only when Hitler needed the money of the industrialists that he promised to deal with them (which he finally did in 1934). Gregor and Otto Strasser were the most notable leaders of the socialist wing of the party. (Otto had come to the Nazis from the socialists).

[Renfield]

LOL!

[TheSpottedOwl]

But he got the trains to run on time.

That was Mussolini,Hitler built the Autobahn.

HA! Torrance CA's buses run exactly on the hour. Need I say more? I hate that town :(