Posted on 08/23/2007 1:24:06 PM PDT by Plutarch
Yeah, Rudy, just had to support Cuomo rather than Republican governor to "survive." Tell me another one.
And, three earliest primary states — Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, the states where voters actually paying a little bit of attention, Giuliani isn’t leading a single one of them.
Well some us find it hard to believe the ANYONE here could have supported the most pro-big government president since LBJ, but, of course, we were wrong. If Rudy gets the nomination, I predict that most people here will chose to delude themselves and vote for him.
There... I fixed it.
And, electing a RINO will turn the clock back to the Nixon era, where a liberal Republican worked with Democrats to implement all sort of leftist policies damaging to the nation while the Republicans became a shrinking minority in Congress.
When are certain "conservatives" going to realize electing RINOS to office never, ever produces positive results for conservatives? It's not possible to make progress if conservatives vote for liberals, regardless of the party.
Only someone grossly ignorant would make that comment given RINO Rudy's record:
Illegal immigration/Immigration
Immigration politics have similarly harmed New York. Former mayor Rudolph Giuliani sued all the way up to the Supreme Court to defend the city’s sanctuary policy against a 1996 federal law decreeing that cities could not prohibit their employees from cooperating with the INS. Oh yeah? said Giuliani; just watch me. The INS, he claimed, with what turned out to be grotesque irony, only aims to “terrorize people.” Though he lost in court, he remained defiant to the end. On September 5, 2001, his handpicked charter-revision committee ruled that New York could still require that its employees keep immigration information confidential to preserve trust between immigrants and government. Six days later, several visa-overstayers participated in the most devastating attack on the city and the country in history.
New York conveniently forgot the 1996 federal ban on sanctuary laws until a gang of five Mexicans—four of them illegal—abducted and brutally raped a 42-year-old mother of two near some railroad tracks in Queens. The NYPD had already arrested three of the illegal aliens numerous times for such crimes as assault, attempted robbery, criminal trespass, illegal gun possession, and drug offenses. The department had never notified the INS.
Source: Heather Mac Donald
CNN clip:
Announcer: "Back in 1996, mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants."
Rudy Giuliani: "There isn't a mayor or a public official in this country that's more strongly pro immigrant than I am. Including disagreeing with President Clinton when he signed an anti-immigration legislation about two or three years ago."
The New York Immigrant Coalition Press Release, August, 1989:
Rudy would continue to make city services available to all immigrants, regardless of immigration status.
Prohibit city workers from reporting undocumented immigrants to the INS, unless criminal activity is involved….
Make sure that city workers understand what benefits immigrants are entitled to….
Encourage outreach to immigrant communities to encourage their utilization of city services….
Support the use of interpreters and translators in city government
Support bilingual and bicultural education with goals of learning fluent English and maintaining native language skills….
Oppose making English the “official language” of the U.S.
Support adding alienage to protected class under City’s Human rights Law.
Additionally, he has supported Bush's guest worker program.
Guns
CNN clip
Rudy Giuliani: "I'm in favor of gun control"
Meet The Press:
Tim Russert: "How about registration of all handguns?"
Rudy Giuliani: "You know I'm in favor of that. I've been on your show many times."
As mayor of New York City, Rudolph W. Giuliani became the favorite Republican of gun control advocates. He spoke in favor of a licensing system for gun owners that would require trigger locks and firearms training, and he lobbied Congress to outlaw most military-style assault weapons. He was the only Republican mayor to join a lawsuit by dozens of cities against the gun industry, and he complained that Southern states had lax gun laws that fed the illegal weapons trade in the Northeast.
Abortion
As mayor, Rudy Giuliani will uphold a woman's right of choice to have an abortion. Giuliani will fund all city programs which provide abortions to insure that no woman is deprived of her right due to an inability to pay. He will oppose reductions in state funding. He will oppose making abortion illegal. New York Times, August 4, 1989
Giuliani said in a speech back in 1989: “There must be public funding for abortions for poor women,” Giuliani says in the speech that is posted on the video sharing site YouTube. “We cannot deny any woman the right to make her own decisions about abortion.”
Leaflets distributed by the Giuliani campaign .... said that he opposes restrictions to Federal Medicaid financing for abortions and opposes the Hyde Amendment, which is intended to deny support for that financing. New York Times, June 18, 1993.
On Partial Birth Abortion: Mr. Giuliani has said that New York State law should not be changed to outlaw the procedure. New York Times, January 7, 1998
"I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights,Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing," he responded." -- CNN.com, "Inside Politics" Dec 2, 1999
"I never called for the overturning of Roe vs. Wade." Rudy Giuliani, New York Newsday, September 1, 1989
On Parental notification, Giuliani says he's for it now. But read this excerpt from a New York Times article written last month:
"On a 1997 candidate questionnaire from the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League of New York, which Mr. Giuliani completed and signed, he marked ‘yes’ to the question: Would you oppose legislation ‘requiring a minor to obtain permission from a parent or from a court before obtaining an abortion.’”
As these comments from a 1989 conversation with Phil Donahue show, Rudy Giuliani is staunchly in favor of abortion:
"I've said that I'll uphold a woman's right of choice, that I will fund abortion so that a poor woman is not deprived of a right that others can exercise, and that I would oppose going back to a day in which abortions were illegal.
I do that in spite of my own personal reservations. I have a daughter now; if a close relative or a daughter were pregnant, I would give my personal advice, my religious and moral views ...
Donahue: Which would be to continue the pregnancy.
Giuliani: Which would be that I would help her with taking care of the baby. But if the ultimate choice of the woman - my daughter or any other woman - would be that in this particular circumstance [if she had] to have an abortion, I'd support that. I'd give my daughter the money for it."
From the FEC database: 04/24/1999 Donations
NEW YORK STATE NARAL INC WOMEN'S HEALTH PAC
NARAL donated exclusively to Democrat candidates with one exception----Rudy Giuliani.
Giuliani accepted $1,000 from NARAL in 1999.
NARAL gave $250 to Hillary Rodham Clinton.
NARAL gave $1000---4 times as much-----to pro-abortion Giuliani.
The homosexual agenda
Giuliani said homosexuality is "good and normal." quoting Ray Kerrison New York Post, July 7, 1989
According to the New York Times, Giuliani has attended every “gay pride” parade in New York during his eight years as mayor. In 1992, during his first run for mayor, Giuliani took part in a homosexual “pride” parade that included a contingent of pedophile activists marching behind a banner for NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love.
On Gay Domestic Partnership: "I have no objection to the concept of domestic partnership," said Rudy Giuliani on Informed Sources New York T.V. Show (PBS), May, 1992
On Gay-Rights/Gay Rights Bill: Giuliani favors extended civil-rights protection for gays and lesbians. Giuliani urged, by letter, to the New York Senate Majority Leader to pass the state's first ever gay rights bill, but did it privately. "I am writing to convey my support for the current legislation to prohibit discrimination against gays and lesbians, and to urge you to allow the bill onto the floor of the Senate for prompt action." ".......It is my belief that we can penalize discrimination [against gays] without creating any potentially objectionable special privileges or preferential treatment." New York Post, June 5, 1993
Judical appointments
A Politico review of the 75 judges Giuliani appointed to three of New York state's lower courts found that Democrats outnumbered Republicans by more than 8 to 1. One of his appointments was an officer of the International Association of Lesbian and Gay Judges. Another ruled that the state law banning liquor sales on Sundays was unconstitutional because it was insufficiently secular.
A third, an abortion-rights supporter, later made it to the federal bench in part because New York Sen. Charles E. Schumer, a liberal Democrat, said he liked her ideology.
Cumulatively, Giuilani's record was enough to win applause from people like Kelli Conlin, the head of NARAL Pro-Choice New York, the state's leading abortion-rights group. "They were decent, moderate people," she said.
Source: Ben Smith, The Politico, 3/1/07
One judge approved by Giuliani, Rosalyn Richter, had been executive director of a gay rights organization, Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, before being named to the bench. After her initial appointment by former Mayor David N. Dinkins, Richter changed the questions asked of potential jurors to be more welcoming to gay and lesbian couples. She was later reappointed by Giuliani.
Another judge, appointed by Giuliani to the criminal bench in 1996, Dora Irizarry, has called herself pro-choice and was later elevated to the federal bench with strong support from Democratic Sens. Charles E. Schumer and Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.
A family court judge reappointed by Giuliani, Sheldon Rand, was excoriated on the conservative-leaning New York Post editorial page last week for ruling that city funds be used to pay for a sex-change operation for an indigent New York resident.
And a fourth judge, Paula J. Hepner, appointed initially by Dinkins in 1995, issued a ruling that allowed a lesbian to adopt her partner's child. Four years later, Giuliani reappointed Hepner to New York's family court bench. Hepner was subsequently married to another woman in a ceremony in Canada.
Source: om Hamburger and Adam Schreck, Los Angeles Times, 3/12/07
Global Warming
"I do believe there's global warming, yes. The big question has always been how much of it is happening because of natural climate changes and how much of it is happening because of human intervention. The overwhelming number of scientists now believe that there is significant human cause." -- Rudolph Giuliani, Feb. 12, 2007.
Taxes
---"Over the objections of a furious Mayor Giuliani and city legislators from both parties, the New York state legislature has abolished the New York City commuter tax. The action, done to apparently affect a local legislative race in suburban Rockland County, could cost New York City $360 million. NPR's Margot Adler reports."--- NPR Report
---"Let's face it: Rudy Giuliani argued for the reinstatement of the tax,..."--- NY Sun report
[Giuliani] says ruling out a tax increase is "political pandering." Newsday, August 31, 1989
"When I ran for Mayor both times, I was asked very, very often to do the following:
Pledge that you will never raise taxes. I refused to do that. Pledge that you will lower taxes. I refused to do that." -- Rudy Giuliani, New York Times, October 25, 1994
Mr. Giuliani criticized Mr. Pataki’s proposal to cut taxes as “a shell game” that would hurt everyone in the state… -- New York Times, October 30, 1994
Government spending
Mr. Giuliani said the surplus from the current fiscal year, which ends on June 30, is projected to be $856 million, a record amount caused largely by higher-than-expected tax revenues from robust profits on Wall Street. He said for the first time that he wanted to use $99 million of that money to help the city adapt to the new strict Federal welfare rules by paying for child care, job training and other programs.
Source: New York Times, Clifford Levy, 5/9/97
Giuliani allowed spending to increase significantly faster than inflation during four of his last five years in office - and another big increase was in store for fiscal 2002 before the World Trade Center attack forced the city into an austerity mode.
Source: FISCALWATCH MEMO July 20, 2004
Not all that well. According to New York's Independent Budget Office, total budgeted expenditures grew from $31.8 billion in 1995 (Rudy's first budget year) to $44.6 billion in 2003, an increase of 40.3%. By comparison, the inflation rate from January 1995 to January 2003 was 20.89% according to this inflation rate calculator. Thus, New York City's spending under Rudy grew at a rate twice that of inflation.
Perhaps the biggest difference is on fiscal issues. Giuliani, who lost interest in curtailing the growth of city government in his latter years, left behind a fiscal catastrophe—a $6.4 billion deficit proportionately bigger than the hole that caused the 1975 fiscal shortfall. --- Jacob Weisberg, Slate magazine 2/21/07
Mr. Clinton is enthusiastic, and in August 1997 uses his tool for the first time to strike down a special-interest provision tucked in a bill. That provision gives New York hospitals a unique right to bilk extra Medicaid money, and the veto is expected to save federal taxpayers at least $200 million. Quicker than a Big Apple pol can say "pork," New York officials sue, challenging the line item veto's constitutionality. That suit, Clinton v. City of New York, goes all the way to the Supremes, which in 1998 put the kibosh on veto authority. The kicker? The guy who brought the suit and won--or, rather, the guy who helped stall one of the more powerful tools for reining in government spending--was none other than former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
Source: Kimberly Strassel, Wall Street Journal, 4/14/07
School Choice
We’re going to see increased calls for privatization and for vouchers for private and parochial school education. Alternatives which in my view will weaken if not create the collapse of the New York City public school system…. I believe the voucher system in New York City would be very, very troublesome. Our system is so large that making that kind of transition would pose tremendous difficulties. Not to mention the constitutional and legal difficulties that would be entailed in providing tax relief and tax dollars for religious education.
Rudy Giuliani
Speech to Wharton Club,
New York Times, August 15, 1995
Giuliani himself was on record as repeatedly opposing a voucher system. As a candidate in 1993, he had told United Federation of Teachers’ President Sandra Feldman that he believed vouchers were “unconstitutional.”
In May 1995, he told a UFT conference that “vouchers would bleed the public schools of needed funds.”
In a speech to the Wharton Club in August 1995, the mayor declared, “Vouchers would weaken, if not create the collapse of the New York City public-school system.”
But by January 1999, Giuliani, facing term limits, was seriously thinking about running for the Senate in 2000. His advisers and pollsters were telling him that if he switched his position on vouchers, it would help him with Catholic voters upstate, and the national Republican Party.
So he slipped a favorable reference to a voucher plan into his state of the city address that month.
According to Wayne Barrett’s definitive Giuliani biography, Rudy!, following this voucher’s reference, the mayor told an alarmed Crew, “Don’t worry about it. It’s just a political thing, a campaign thing. I’m not going to do anything. Don’t take it seriously.”
The Full Rudy, pp. 52-53
"He doesn't support tuition tax credits and vouchers." Sandra Feldman, President of N.Y.C. Teacher's Union, 1993
Minimum Wage
"I favor increasing the minimum wage." -- Rudolph Giuliani, 2/6/00, CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer.
Price Controls
Giuliani to Lobby to Save Rent Control (May 24, 1997)
The Tenant/AP ^ | May 24, 1997 | staff
NEW YORK -- Mayor Rudolph Giuliani says he will go back to Albany next week to push to keep rent controls on more than 1 million apartments, and to urge Republican leaders to come around to his position.
``I believe that we should continue rent stabilization and rent control,'' the mayor said. ``I will continue to oppose'' their elimination.
On McCain-Feingold "For example, on campaign finance reform, I'm a very, very strong supporter of Campaign Finance Reform. A very strong supporter of McCain-Feingold for a long, long time now." -- 2/6/00, CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer.
Disregard for Constitutional Rights Mayor Giuliani routinely disregarded the First Amendment as he rejected requests for information from news organizations and civic groups and opposed public access to city hall steps and parks for demonstrations. "Freedom is about authority," Giuliani said, responding to critics in 1998. "Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
War on Terror
Giuliani Defends Clinton on 9/11 Efforts
FOX News ^ | 09/27/2006 | Matt Sedensky
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani defended Bill Clinton on Wednesday over the former president's counterterrorism efforts, saying recent criticism on preventing the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks is wrong.
Political bickering over which president _ Clinton or George W. Bush _ missed more opportunities to prevent the attacks has been escalating since Clinton gave a combative interview on"Fox News Sunday"in which he defended his efforts to kill Osama bin Laden.
"The idea of trying to cast blame on President Clinton is just wrong for many, many reasons, not the least of which is I don't think he deserves it,"Giuliani said in response to a question after an appearance with fellow Republican Charlie Crist, who is running for governor."I don't think President Bush deserves it. The people who deserve blame for Sept. 11, I think we should remind ourselves, are the terrorists _ the Islamic fanatics _ who came here and killed us and want to come here again and do it."
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice challenged Clinton's claim that he did more than many of his conservative critics to pursue bin Laden, and she accused the Democrat of leaving no comprehensive plan to fight al-Qaida.
Giuliani said he believed Clinton, like his successor, did everything he could with the information he was provided.
"Every American president I've known would have given his life to prevent an attack like that. That includes President Clinton, President Bush,"the former mayor said."They did the best they could with the information they had at the time."
Welfare Reform
Rudy's Welfare Plea (Fought to keep immigrants on welfare.) New York Daily News (via LexisNexis) ^ | 03/21/1997 | Joel Siegel
Mayor Giuliani took his advocacy for immigrants to Congress yesterday, trying to derail the planned August cut-off of federal welfare benefits to legal immigrants including more than 135,000 in New York City.
He said the abrupt end of food stamps and Supplemental Security Income payments would inflict severe and unfair hardships on legal immigrants and impose financial pain on cities like New York that will be forced to step in and help those who lose aid.
The cut-off was a key provision of the sweeping federal welfare reform approved last summer. Some immigrants will begin losing their benefits in June, with all benefits to be halted by Aug. 22.
"All of these people would [lose assistance] all at once, not phased in, not done in some kind of sensible way in which citizens and states could assess, 'How do we replace these benefits?' " Giuliani said.
Whew! That is some book.
Wondering if you had and direct, first hand knowledge of the policies and effects?
All your quotes seem to be from CNN, NYTimes, and other reputable sources )??)
Have you ever been to NYC in the 70s, 80s, 90s, or currently? I have and while I do not support every issue, I beleive the ones that people are using against him are at the very, very bottom of his platform and they need to see first hand what an effective manager can accomplish in a hopeless situation. Unfortunately that takes sucking up on a lot of political issues, but the ends justify the means. It is funny how the liberal media is using this to divide the Republicans and how many of us are dumb enough to buy all of it.
Not to choose is to choose. WHOEVER the GOP candidate is, the ONLY option in our two-party system is Hillary. Don’t know how anyone could live with himself for putting her in the White House. It simply is not a real option.
I constantly hear people, including quite conservative people, who warmly embrace Rudy because the option is Hillary. For Fred to be seen as a viable alternative, he actually has to be in the race.
But until we have evidence to the contrary, poll after poll after poll shows that Rudy is beating him by a medium-sized to- huge margin.
Well, “uninformed” does count for a lot at this stage. Some people actually REBEL at the prospect of “doing politics” one year out. They don’t like the process, and participate grudgingly. So in a sense, they may “know” either Fred or Rudy’s positions and just not give a damn-—yet.
We’ll see how they turn out. Course, Rudy wouldn’t have to win ANY of those, only come in second in each to a different candidate, to ‘win.’
No, some will delude themselves that they are “standing for something” and not vote, thereby electing Hillary. You ain’t seen “big government” yet.
True. However, the conventional wisdom from the chattering classes that Fred Thompson’s supporters only support him because of some sort of psychological projection of their own beliefs, due to a lack of knowledge about his, is total bunk.
Fred Thompson’s base of support is coming from people who ARE familiar with his positions on issues. It is Rudy that is benefiting from the uninformed, not Fred.
Evidence of this is present in this poll:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1885405/posts
The bottom line is, if you don’t support Fred Thompson, it’s just because you don’t know Fred Thompson yet. Once you do know Fred Thompson, you’ll support him, unless you’re a barking moonbat. That goes for Dems and Repubs and will become more evident after his formal declaration.
Should have heard the round table the other day. All Rudy all the time now.
Michigan Republican primary voters are rabidly pro 2nd Amendment. Both Rooty and Romney will be hammered on that and I can’t see either having much chance here.
Rooty may win NH but will be crushed in MI and SC.
I like Hunter but I think Fred will win MI, SC, and Fla.
I think by mid Nov you will start seeing that trend in the polls.
If the 9/11 passengers had the option of being armed, the World Trade Center would still be standing.
I am fully aware that some social conservatives are supporting Rudy now, because “they want to win” not because they agree with the great majority of his positions. My point is there is a large contingent of his supporters who are backing him because of name ID, not political affinity (see the Gallup poll yesterday, which demonstrates that among uninformed/apathetic voters give him the leads he currently enjoys). The campaign has not begun yet. The first votes will not be cast for over 4 months.
The American people suffer from chronic impatience, and I include myself in that appraisal. But early starts and very well financed candidates are not guarantors of success. Phil Gramm in 1996 and Steve Forbes in 2000 proved that. And neither of them labored under the ideological baggage that Rudy does. As the Pew poll found, Rudy’s support right now is broad but not deep. Only 21% of likely Republican voters strongly approved of him. 31% strongly approve of Fred Thompson. And the campaign has not begun in earnest. Only Romney is running ads. No comparison ads highlighting Rudy’s positions have been run yet. We are in a phase right now that is akin to the “eye of the storm” in which everything is very placid. I think you and many others make a serious mistake in assuming that this situation is going to persist. It never does. There is a campaign. Choices are made, based almost always on ideology first, that is the nominee must be broadly acceptable to the entire party, and then electable.
As for late starts, I refer you to Reagan’s start in late November 1979, with the Iowa caucuses in January 1980. Also, Bill Clinton started in December 1991, with the Iowa caucuses in January 1992. Both of them won the nominations comfortably. I am completely comfortable with Thompson’s strategy, since it appears to be working, but time will prove where wisdom lies.
You’re the problem for conservatives, the GOP and America. You want to give a self-professed liberal a total pass on a lifetime of advancing the leftwing agenda. Come on. Rooty was a McGovernite. The man has no respect for the Constitution. Right. Now you’ll tell us, Hillary has even less respect for the Constitution. That type of thinking will never break the stranglehold liberalism has had on America for most of the last 40 years!
Politics isn’t always about compromising and supporting the lesser of two evil. How about standing on values, beliefs, convictions and principles. Rooty is a destructive force for all the issues conservatism stands for and is really no better than Hillary, Edwards and Obama. Stop defending liberalism. This nations morals are in the toilet. Both our fiscal and social morals. A “President” Giuliani is not the answer to solve those problems.
I can safely predict that Rudy will not become President. He is in the wrong party. If, by some miracle, he is nominated, then his nomination will assure the election of the very person all the Rudybots profess to fear the most-Hillary Clinton. I must say...I do appreciate the irony of that.
However, his nomination is only slightly less improbable than his election (which is flat out impossible). I am counting on Fred to spare the country of the prospect of either.
LOL...I referenced this same thread...lol...I thought we were on another one. :)
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