Not so fast, Christian soldiers

LA Times ^ | 22 August 2007 | Editorial Staff

[shrinkermd]

Last week, after an investigation spurred by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, the Pentagon abruptly announced that it would not be delivering "freedom packages" to our soldiers in Iraq, as it had originally intended.

What were the packages to contain? Not body armor or home-baked cookies. Rather, they held Bibles, proselytizing material in English and Arabic and the apocalyptic computer game "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" (derived from the series of post-Rapture novels), in which "soldiers for Christ" hunt down enemies who look suspiciously like U.N. peacekeepers.

The packages were put together by a fundamentalist Christian ministry called Operation Straight Up, or OSU. Headed by former kickboxer Jonathan Spinks, OSU is an official member of the Defense Department's "America Supports You" program. The group has staged a number of Christian-themed shows at military bases, featuring athletes, strongmen and actor-turned-evangelist Stephen Baldwin. But thanks in part to the support of the Pentagon, Operation Straight Up has now begun focusing on Iraq, where, according to its website (on pages taken down last week), it planned an entertainment tour called the "Military Crusade."

[gondramB]

>>So you’re primarily objecting to tax writeoffs for bad video games? Or just the ones with a religious theme?<<

I wish I’d answered this better.

I object to dumping a failed commercial product on soldiers, expecting the army to pay for distribution and then claiming its a religious freedom issue.

[George W. Bush]

No way, I don't give in to ideological or religious coercion. It's unamerican.

Absolutely. What if you are being compelled to pray or worship with an officer? Given the mix of religion among the enlisted, there are many sects and religions that simply cannot be expected to worship or pray together. If sexual harassment and fraternizing are against the code of conduct for officers, so is religious discrimination against a free exercise of religion or conscience. (The non-religious have inalienable rights as well, even if they don't acknowledge the Divine source of those rights as described by the Founders.)

Officers are accountable for such abuse of their authority. But anyone complaining had better be prepared to prove it factually.

[George W. Bush]

In the Left Behind Series, the new Christians were not "hunting down" anybody. They were too busy hiding from ol' Nick and his minions.

But video games that consist of hiding and getting slaughtered randomly by the U.N. for being a religious deviate have just never been very popular.

[Popocatapetl]

“They do let you play as a minion of the Antichrist, killing Christians.”

Why am I not surprised.

“No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.” —H.L. Mencken

[George W. Bush]

But I’m not gonna cry because the army won’t help distribute a wretched game under the cover of religion. If they were being deprived of say... World of Warcraft or Oblivion or any game for which there is actually a demand it might be different. But the army has no obligation to help a commercial enterprise for which there is no demand.

One could say there is no "demand" for many of the other items shipped routinely by the military to our soldiers. They are sent so our soldiers are remembered from home, so they have books and movies and music and games from home. So they know they are not forgotten.

I'm not sure exactly how we justify a person who we don't trust to play an apocalyptic Christian video game (basically Quake with Christians vs. Antichrist-align U.N. soldiers) but then we expect at the same time that their judgment is adequate to be turned loose daily to patrol Baghdad in armored vehicles with automatic weapons. There are people on this thread that don't seem to have much confidence in our troops who are an extremely well-behaved bunch who are remarkably sensitive to the cultural divides between themselves and the Iraqi peoples and the terrorists and sectarian fighters they face.

Me, I think our troops are sophisticated enough to handle an XBox game. I'm willing to trust their judgment and discretion.

[gondramB]

>>One could say there is no “demand” for many of the other items shipped routinely by the military to our soldiers. They are sent so our soldiers are remembered from home, so they have books and movies and music and games from home. So they know they are not forgotten.<<

Yeah but when its a large scale commercial delivery, not packages who postage is paid for I can see the army deciding whether its something they want to put their stamp of support on.

>>I’m not sure exactly how we justify a person who we don’t trust to play an apocalyptic Christian video game (basically Quake with Christians vs. Antichrist-align U.N. soldiers) but then we expect at the same time that their judgment is adequate to be turned loose daily to patrol Baghdad in armored vehicles with automatic weapons<<

Who said anything about not trusting them to play the game. They have high speed internet and can download the demo for free. If the company was really trying to get the game in the soldier’s hand they could send them the unlock code so they could play the whole game for free.

This is a commercial endeavor, not a religious freedom issue.

[George W. Bush]

They do let you play as a minion of the Antichrist, killing Christians.

Why am I not surprised.

Well, you have to admit that the atheist soldiers should have no real cause to complain since they can play too.

Seriously, I think a lot of you don't know many gamers. Most likely, these games would be played by guys in their twenties. And they'd switch and play both sides. It's just how gamers are. I'm not that young but I see how they play these games. They really don't take any game that seriously. And if they do, they don't belong in the military with dangerous weapons and responsibilities that our soldiers are asked to bear daily in Iraq.

It's kind of wacky to think that guys who are very religious would absorb their doctrine and religious belief from an Xbox. You start to feel like you're debating nanny-staters like Tipper Gore.

[George W. Bush]

Did you read the entire article? The examples of officers who appeared in Christian Embassy videos was inappropriate as was the officer who toured and spoke at many churches in apocalyptic terms of the U.S. military’s mission following 9/11. These sorts of things are forbidden by Aricle 88 of UCMJ and should be prosecuted. Officers, unlike enlisted men, have no right to wear the uniform for such purposes. Wearing the officers’ uniform is tantamount to speaking for the entire military.

[Marysecretary]

He was a general in God’s Army and one of the world’s best bible smugglers.

[Caramelgal]

Christians “proselytize Christianity”.

And I say that Christians have the perfect the right to proselytize and as an American citizen, I have the right to listen to them or not to listen to them. That’s what religious freedom in the United States of America is all about.

It is a basic requirement of their religion, that they do so by both words and individual deeds, by acting as examples.

I have great respect for and am much more impressed by Christians (or those of any other religion) who proselytize by their individual deeds and by the example they set in they way they live their every day lives rather than those folks who hand me pamphlets and preach at me. Read my tag line. I’m not so impressed by mere words. I turn on the TV any Sunday morning and the airwaves are filled with televangelists who fly around the country in private jets and make boat loads of money by duping desperate or gullible people into giving them even more money so they can live a lavish and rather un-Christian like lifestyle.

They don’t have any religiously based requirements to kill or forcefully conquer disbelievers of their faith. They are merely required to make known their beliefs to all they come into contact with.

“They”, in this case, being our armed forces, do have a job to do and that involves killing. That’s what our military is trained and paid to do.

Or as General George Patton said, “No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”

That’s our military mission. And it has nothing to due with religion. As I understand, we are not in Iraq or Afghanistan to convert anyone to Christianity. Our mission is to take out (kill) the bad guys and bring stability to the region in order to protect our national security and anything that interferes with that mission is an unwarranted and dangerous distraction.

I think the Pentagon’s objection was not in this group’s delivering Bibles or religious texts to soldiers, but in the proselytizing material in English and Arabic.

It’s not a solder’s job to “proselytize” and any organization that encourages our military men and women to do anything other than their job is wrong and Pentagon and DOD has a right to censure such materials.

My employer pays me to do a job. If I spend my day at work going around and preaching to my fellow employees, rather than doing the job I’m being paid for – guess what, I’ll be fired. I’d be fired not for being a Christian but for not doing the job my employer paid me to do.

[DesScorp]

“Military Religious Freedom Foundation”

Another liberal example of big brother language...form a group named for religious freedom, then use it to banish that freedom as fast as you can.

Man, I despise liberals.

[L98Fiero]

“So what do you get happy on?...”

Paraphrasing his hero Karl Marx, it appears..

[PurpleMan]

“So what do you get happy on?...”

No. Yanking people’s chains when they appear to be too tightly wrapped.

See post 73.

[sarasmom]

I am having difficulty understanding specifically what it is, that you object too, regarding Christians serving in the USA DOD.

[Caramelgal]

I am having difficulty understanding specifically what it is, that you object too, regarding Christians serving in the USA DOD.

I’m having some real difficulty understanding why you think that I do.

I don’t have any objection to Christians serving in our military; or Jews, or Muslims, or Wiccans, or Atheists or anybody else for that matter, as long as they follow the Military’s rules, code of conduct and are committed to honorably serving their and our country. Anyone who puts their life on the line to serve our county has my greatest respect.

And I don’t have any problem what so ever with military personnel who are Christian with having Bibles or other religious materials for their personal use or attending Christian services, officiated by a Christian chaplain.

I don’t think that Christians or Jews or anyone else should be made to hide or to be ashamed of their religion or their lack there of. But that’s a personal choice.

What I have a problem with, and what I suspect the Pentagon and DOD had a problem with, is the contents of the package containing “proselytizing material in English and Arabic and the apocalyptic computer game "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" (derived from the series of post-Rapture novels), in which "soldiers for Christ" hunt down enemies who look suspiciously like U.N. peacekeepers.

I’m sorry that we disagree but I fail to understand why you can’t see the difference.