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1 posted on 08/11/2007 10:27:11 AM PDT by kiriath_jearim
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To: kiriath_jearim
Although this article may address some career criminals the police officers that I have known were of the general opinion that:

most criminals don’t take care of their weapons

most criminals don’t know how to properly use their weapons

most criminals are bully's and when faced with an opponent determined and equally armed will flee

most criminals are scared of cops

I know this doesn’t apply to all.

2 posted on 08/11/2007 10:56:34 AM PDT by BBell
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To: kiriath_jearim
Another thing to keep in mind.

Criminals have no problem with pulling a gun and spraying bullets all over the place. At that moment in time they know exactly what they are going to do.

This gives them a slight advantage over LEOs and Concealed Carry people. While police are trained they respond to many calls during a shirt and can be caught by surprise. CC people are concerned about following the law. Both can be placed at a slight confrontation with a thug about to start spraying.

In a “Fair” fight (I know - no such thing) I’d give the edge to LEOs and CCs over the thug.

Just my opinion of course.

3 posted on 08/11/2007 11:12:52 AM PDT by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: kiriath_jearim

I think the response of many will be that police need more training and better weapons. Essentially they need to become more like the military.

I think we need to lock the thugs up sooner and keep em there. The police generally know who the bad guys are. Its the courts and liberals who keep letting violent people out on our streets.


6 posted on 08/11/2007 11:24:55 AM PDT by driftdiver
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To: kiriath_jearim

I’m going to split one hair with this guy. Criminals are stupid. But they’re cunning and experienced. There’s a difference, and I refuse to call most (not all) criminals intelligent in the same way a physicist is intelligent.

Having written that, I’ve run onto more than one cop who thinks it’s cool to barely know how to use a weapon, and barely pass the annual shooting test.

And private citizens are mostly hopeless - that’s why carjacking works.

If you’re not going to practice both your shooting and your attitude, leave the weapon at home.


8 posted on 08/11/2007 11:47:54 AM PDT by Felis_irritable (Dirty_Felis_Irritable...)
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To: kiriath_jearim
>>Criminals do not worry about marksmanship, stance, grip, sight alignment or any of the other fundamentals we rely upon. Instead, they rely most often on instinctive shooting, or “point and click.” The key is to get rounds on target, quickly. As one cold-blooded killer remarked, even if he shoots you in the leg, he can walk up later after you are incapacitated and put one in your head. Despite this, the criminals have a much greater accuracy rate than the police. <<

I have stressed "point and shoot" techniques on FR for years because it is effective.

Two Ventura, Ca. FBI agents taught me to "point and shoot" when I was in the Navy and I will never quit thanking them for their time spent.

18 posted on 08/11/2007 12:59:09 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( "Freedom is not free, but don't worry the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share.")
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To: kiriath_jearim

“Better Trained: Cop killers or the police officers they kill?”

That question is above my paygrade.

BUT...after my stay in Los Angeles in 1995-2005...
after hearing of numerous innocents being killed by stray bullets
intended to hit competing gang members...

...I said that the LAPD should sentence gang members to weapons-training
programs so that the thugs would kill their intended parties.

Not the innocent mother and/or child that happened to be killed
by their poor marksmanship.


20 posted on 08/11/2007 1:02:59 PM PDT by VOA
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To: kiriath_jearim

Female cops looking for “bulges”. ;-)


22 posted on 08/11/2007 1:38:09 PM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Your home for pithy disquistion)
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To: kiriath_jearim
The article is pretty much correct.

That a person is armed is usually obvious. As the article points out, “the study found police often missed “telltales” of weapon presence on the offender. Bulges, inappropriate clothing, constant touching of the gun through layered clothing, blading the body away from the officer to protect access to the gun etc.”

The cops affect not to notice. (Many cops don’t notice, believe it or not.) For a cop, stopping people because they are probably armed will get you fired as a “racist”. Besides the hoods will be back on the street before the reports are filled out.

Standard handgun training is OK but only if you know what you are doing. Probably the most important rule of self defense with a handgun that is never taught is that the gun is only drawn to shoot to kill. No hesitation, no second thoughts. Shoot. Do not threaten. Do not talk.

Obviously if possible one takes as strong a defensive position as time allows. A defensive position ideally will provide cover from fire, concealment from the enemy, and opportunities for maneuver (read: “running away”).

23 posted on 08/11/2007 1:42:32 PM PDT by Iris7 ("Do not live lies!" ...Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn)
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To: kiriath_jearim
In another example of how dangerous it can be to underestimate the two-legged predators who walk among us, the FBI has recently finished a five year study of cop killers and the shootouts that took the officer’s life.

So you take a study of cop killers and generalize about the entire criminal population. Talk about biasing your argument. What about all the criminals who got killed? What about those who put their hands up. What about those who turned and ran? This article is worthless.

26 posted on 08/11/2007 6:52:12 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The only good Mullah is a dead Mullah. The only good Mosque is the one that used to be there.)
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To: kiriath_jearim

what it boils down to is that the criminal already knows he’s going to use deadly force in an encounter, meaning he most likely will get off the first shot. And in a close range gunfight, the first shot usually wins.


30 posted on 08/12/2007 1:17:50 AM PDT by kms61
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To: kiriath_jearim

In every field I’ve worked in there is professional arrogance among many members. “I’m a professional and any amatuer is laughably incompetent.” Think about teachers versus homeschoolers.

Reality is a policeman has to work at his shooting to stay on top of his game. And there are amatuers while on average worse then a ‘highly trained professional’.. there are amatuers that are incredible at every human endevour. Thats one reason we have to respect policemen is there is a risk they are putting on the line even when they do their job well, keep up practice and gun maintenance, professionally approach each situation.


31 posted on 08/12/2007 1:32:48 AM PDT by ran20
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To: kiriath_jearim
Criminals have been carrying and using firearms for far longer than those they target, as early as since age 9 and almost all since age 12. This has given them real-life experience in the carrying and use of guns from a very early age, and just like the young athlete out on the basketball court until sundown, they excel at what they practice.

Carrying is one thing, shooting is another. Ya gotta practice, and where are they going to do that without attracting unwanted attention?

Criminals have been through a PhD program in mindset. Most of these thugs have grown up without parents and have learned the lessons of the street. For years and years, their ability to survive has depended largely upon their willingness to do whatever it takes to persevere in an encounter.

That's what their would be victims must also do, whatever it takes to persevere.

32 posted on 08/12/2007 11:09:01 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: kiriath_jearim

I have never heard of “The Force Science Institute.” Do you have a link?


34 posted on 08/13/2007 6:35:25 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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