Posted on 08/06/2007 1:00:48 PM PDT by 303george
August 6, 2007 Solo Marines Often Refused Entry to Some D.C. Bars Last month we got a letter from reader Christine, who related the follwing story and asked us to look into it.
I recently moved to Fairfax, VA to live with my parents until my marriage next month to a marine who is stationed at 8th and I Marine Barracks in SE. After their Friday evening parade, many of the guys like to grab a beer or two. This Friday, myself, my fiancee, and five others decided to grab some drinks. We decided to walk down to Pennsylvania Ave. to find a bar that didn't require a taxi ride home. The first place we found was the Hawk N Dove. Not the kind of place I normally would frequent on a Friday night, but it has a small room downstairs with a TV that they can watch sports and drink beer.
As we go in, we were informed by the gentleman checking IDs that "house rules" states that "no marines without dates are allowed in." Apparently, since our group had only two females, only two of the guys were going to be allowed in. Now, I understand that it is common practice to try to keep the male/female ratio somewhat even in a club by not allowing guys in. The Hawk N Dove is not a club. It is crap dive bar with a sketchy ass dance floor that serves disgusting hamburgers. I cannot believe that they do not let people in because of their occupation.
I was more upset that I was the only one who was taken aback by this. My fiancee's friends informed me that this happens quite often -- they are told that because they are marines, they are not allowed in, but other males are. Is this common practice in DC? Does the DCist know of some unofficial list of bars that don't allow members of the military? Should my fiancee invest in a wig to hide the crew cut so he can have a beer three blocks from the capital? Hawk N' Dove's manager Paul Meagher confirms that this is in fact official policy of his bar, though he clarifies the policy also allows unaccompanied marines to enter if they're in uniform. Meagher said that the policy was first put in place in the 1990s, around the time of the Gulf War, due to a series of incidents inside the bar involving destruction of property at the hands of marines from the nearby Barracks.
"If they behave responsibly, they are welcome," Meagher said. "So we ask them to be in uniform or be with a date, because women seem to calm them down ... There's a boys will be boys kind of thing to the 10th power when they're just out and about. It's amazing how (the policy) works."
Meagher wasn't sure if other bars in the Marine Barracks neighborhood have similar policies, but he thought that a few others might. He also said that the policy wasn't necessarily directed only at the Marine Corps -- admitting that his staff would be hard pressed to tell the difference between marines and members of the Army -- only that with the Marine Barracks so close by, in general they are who the the policy affects.
Do you think this is a reasonable policy for a bar to adopt?
A dungaree liberty may be in order
It might not be anti-war. Maybe the bar is run by ex-navy guys who are afraid of marines. :)
“Do you think this is a reasonable policy for a bar to adopt?”
No, but then my policy is simple in response. I would do my dead level best to insure that everyone of my buddies knew about this policy and didn’t frequent that bar under any circumstances.
Especially when our boys are overseas fighting and dying so that twit can own a bar.
Do you think this is a reasonable policy for a bar to adopt?
Yes - it is also private property. Drunk Marines without dates = fights and a trashing of your bar.
But how can they behave resposibly when you don't welcome them in the first place?
This is DC. I lived there five years and kept my politics to myself (mostly). What was experienced is not particularly unique. Start a list on the net and have a boycott. Ask the beer companies if they approve of this. Continue the publicity. Have some fun with it.
As we walked out he followed us and was begging us to reconsider. We told every American we saw not to go to his bar. Take your business elsewhere, Marine. They'll regret their policy.
It doesn’t read like he has anything against the Marines. I understand why he made the rules but he needs to enforce them for everyone. A business owner ought to be able to do what he wants, but I don’t know if couples only, with an exception for people in military dress is legal. It sounds reasonable to me though.
Drunk Marines without dates = fights and a trashing of your bar
—
wow, Flashback there for a second.
what Leatherneck_MT said
I believe the proprietor does still reserve the right to serve or allow entrance to who he or she will, as arbitrary or capricious as it may be, unless times have changed, I could be wrong. The bars I went to always had plenty of both and surprisingly few fights. ;-)
Its not a coincidence that during the late 1990’s, until the end of its run on tv, the ‘Hawk and Dove’ was also featured numerous times on West Wing.
How about a list? I am sure these people could spend money at some of the other bars around town.
Not that these people imbibe all that much, but I am sure a few of them would like a drink now and again.
The reason for the limitation, at least given by the manager, seems just, as a person who lived in Jacksonville, NC, I can tell you a large number of young marines out for a night on the town together, unfortunately can fall victim to boys will be boys and end up causing issues.
I respect and commend our men in uniform, but I also know first hand what a pack of them in an intoxicated state can do... especially ones fresh out of bootcamp with more testosterone than good sense after a bit of alcohol.
Marines in a bar fight??!! Surely you jest sir!
LOL...I have several family members and friends who are ex-Navy and Marines...boys will be boys.
I've also participated in fights involving the 101st Airborne (on their side cause they were friends of mine and staying at my house) and was part of the clean up crew in one with some Detroit Redwings (Hockey) and one of our bartenders. The bartender was an a**hole anyway so I didn't help him.
I would say the policy is sensible but why apply it only to Marines?
I don't frequent bars as much now that I'm married, but will make it a point when I am to buy drinks for Uniformed Service Men and Women. When I was tending bar in Myrtle Beach, if you were in uniform, you did not pay for your first few drinks.....my policy not the bars.
If you really wanted conflict the prick manager four of the Marines could have said they were two couples leaving the author and her marine as another couple with one spare woman remaining. Let's see them discriminate on the basis of sexual preference.
if i see somone come in with their underwear showing or their hat on crooked, i’ll kick them out because i don’t want trouble in my bar.
is this different?
Wasn’t the Hawk and Dove the bar where Patches Kennedy got a bad ice cube before loading up on Amvient and going out for a midnight vote?
Doesn’t the Marine Corps “deal with” Marines who do this sort of thing? I would think if the bar owner/manager called up the base the next morning, some serious action would be taken, including requiring the misbehaving Marines to pay for any damage they caused.
She better realize that one is better off not letting little things upset her so much and forget it. If she isn’t mature enough to do that, I feel sorry for the guy she is marrying.
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