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To: Jmouse007
As someone with extensive experience in the field of Biblical Studies, Systematic Theology and Pastoral Studies (click on “Jmouse007” for details) I stand by my original post.

So you stand by being Wrong? It's neat that you don't have time to write individual posts to people, I love being called names by form letter, don't you?

This starts to sound to me like the teacher on peanuts. We have no way to know you actually have all the degrees you say you have, and WHO CARES?

So, OK, lets explore the claim of C-U-L-T, shall we?
Cult: a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. (From dictionary.reference.com)

So, you are an ordained minister (me too, BTW) you spent time in the Pacific Rim (me Too) You graduated from seminary, (Me too) You say my religion is a cult (you use it in a pejorative way) so, here is the definition, your church is a cult too.

No matter how you sugar coat it, try to cloud the issue at hand or try to cast dispersions upon my character

I did none of the above, but I guess if you are using a form letter, I can't expect it to actually refute my points, but rather assert yours.

(and shouldn't it be cast aspersions?)

The “Jesus” of Mormonism is not the Jesus of the Bible.

Either you are sadly misinformed for someone so learned, or you are lying, I don't claim to know which.

Not interested in reading your books on why I don't believe in Christ, for I know I do, thanks!

You might want to read the Bible, try Matt 10:32: Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

It does not matter, how many prominent people or politicians are Mormons; the reality is Mormonism is NOT biblical Christianity, it is a cult; it always has been and always will be.

I will not waste time trying to change your mind for you have spent years indoctrinating it, however, I clicked on your page, please click on mine. On my FR page, I quote from Resources non-Mormon in source and prove the Trinity is not biblical. As for the rest of the aspersions you cast on Mormonism, well, anyone with the brains to be on this forum sees them for what they are. Please understand that I am not attacking your faith, I am showing you why I believe what I believe and how I think it should be viewed.

I have been through "Wars" here, I have been attacked by every preacher's son in every town I moved into, growing up. I learned to speak Chinese fluently, I spent two years in Taiwan and even graduated from a Buddhist Monastery so I could teach the people better, I have seen the wonders of God unfold in the minds of those who never knew him before. I have healed the sick, and spoken with tongues, and born testimony of him who died on the cross, I have received a testimony from God that he lives and that My church is true.

Nothing you can say will dissuade me from my faith for next to him, and his testimony that still burns in my soul, you are a pajama clad poster on the Internet, posting half truths taught by men in a school.

Like I said: Mormonism is a C U L T, Mr. Romny is a CULT MEMBER in good standing, that is all America needs to know.

You are willing to judge millions, and even single out a man you have never met and judge him based on your religion, that is all any lurker here needs to know... About you.

You have a nice day now, may God shed his truth upon you.
64 posted on 08/06/2007 9:56:25 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
If you are a Mormon, please understand that I am not trying to personally attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief.

Mormonism is not Christian because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of biblical Christianity and because it fits the criteria of a cult:

I. Definition of a Cult:

Any religious movement which claims the backing of Jesus Christ and the Bible but neglects or distorts the person or gospel of Jesus Christ.

II. Five (5) Distinctive Traits or Fruits of a Cult. How can someone tell the difference between biblical Christianity and counterfeit Christianity? Jesus answers this question in Matthew 7:15 – 23: We are to be Christian fruit inspectors. The five (5) traits or fruits of a cult help us discern the difference between a cult and Biblical Christianity.

a. An extra-Scriptural source of authority.

The fruit/position of biblical Christianity:

The Bible alone is our sole authority for faith and practice (2 Timothy 3:15 – 17; 2 Peter 1:20 – 21; Revelation 22:18 – 19).

Every cult has an extra-Biblical source of authority, which supersedes the authority of the Bible.

*Question: Do you base your teachings regarding matters of faith and practice on revelations, secret writings, or traditions other than the Bible?

Mormonism: “The Bible is full of errors; our ultimate authority is The Book of Mormon and The Pearl of Great Price.”

b. They proclaim a different gospel from the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The fruit/position of biblical Christianity:

We are to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ alone (Acts 1:8; Acts 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:1 – 4; 2 Timothy 3:15; Ephesians 1:13; the Old Testament focuses on the same gospel – Luke 24:25 – 27, 44 – 47).

*Question: Is your primary task proclaiming the person and Gospel of Jesus Christ as found in Acts 1:8, 1 Corinthians 15:3 – 4 and Acts 4:12? Mormonism: “We are the only church built on the gospel mission to restore the TRUE gospel which was given to Joseph Smith: The Book of Mormon.”

c. The denial of justification by grace alone.

The fruit/position of biblical Christianity:

Holds that men are totally depraved and are justified before a holy God as a gift by His grace alone apart from works (Romans 3:19 – 28 and Ephesians 2:8 – 9).

Every cult denies justification by grace alone apart from works. It always is faith plus works.

*Question: Do you depend upon some achievements of your own for salvation or are you exclusively relying on the grace of God (Romans 3:21 – 24)?

Mormonism: “Justification by grace is a wicked doctrine. Individual salvation to one of the three heavens is earned by man through his own acts in obedience to the commandments of the Lord.” We believe that through the atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.”

d. The devaluation of the Person and Redemptive Word of Christ (not necessarily a complete denial of Christ's Person and Work).

The fruit/position of biblical Christianity:

Jesus Christ is:

i. The Promised Christ (Messiah) – John 1:19 – 29 (cf. v. 29); John 4:25 – 26; Acts 4:10 – 12.

ii. The Eternal Word of God Who Became Flesh – John 10:30; John 1:1; John 1:14.

iii. Our Lord – Romans 10:9; Acts 2:36; Philippians 2:4 – 11.

iv. The Only Basis for the Forgiveness of Our Sins (His shed blood) – Colossians 1:14 and 20; Romans 5:9; and Ephesians 1:7.

v. The Only Complete Sacrifice (only needed to be done once) – Hebrews 7:26 – 27; 9:12; 9:27 – 28; 10:10 – 12.

vi. The Only Mediator Between Man and God – 1 Timothy 2:5.

Counterfeit Christianity robs Christ's sacrifice of its saving significance because salvation is not determined by the grace of God, but by works.

*Question: Do you believe that Jesus is/has:

 God's chosen one to save the world from sin?

 God the Son—the eternal Word of God become flesh?

 His one, all-sufficient sacrifice on Calvary and his shed blood is the only basis for the forgiveness of your sins?

 Risen from the dead?

 Your Redeemer and Lord?

 The Only Mediator Between God and Man?

A "Yes" answer to all of the foregoing would be indicative of Biblical Christianity.

Mormonism: Jesus Christ is not God, nor is he equal to the Father. “Among the spirit children of Elohim, the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are junior.” Jesus Christ is the first born of all spirit children, all men are spirit children. Therefore Jesus Christ was merely a man who happened to be the first born “spirit child”.

Christ’s incarnation only illustrated what happens to every man who perfectly keeps all the commands of the gospel (as defined by Joseph Smith).

Concerning the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace through faith in Christ alone, totally apart from works ,and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.

e. The group presents itself as the exclusive community of the saved.

The fruit/position of biblical Christianity:

The terms "universal church" or "Body of Christ" refer to the entire body of believers in Jesus Christ regardless of time or location and from all nations and denominations. The one requirement of membership is that one is born again, spiritually born from above. The "local church" refers to groups of Christians who have gathered together locally for worship, etc. (1 Corinthians 12:23; Ephesians 1:22 and 23; and Ephesians 5:23; note the seven "local" churches addressed in Revelations 2 and 3).

Every cult says that they alone are the people of God and that there is no salvation outside of them.

*Question: Is your group the only true church? Must I join your group in order to be saved or are others preaching the truth as well?

Mormons: Believe they are the only true church, all others are false. According to Mormon doctrine, the church was in a state of TOTAL APOSTACY until God revealed Himself to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdry in 1820. When they received the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthood in 1829 and 1830 the restoration of the true church took place.

As to the criteria of a “Christian cult and apologetic information regarding the beliefs , practices and doctrines of Mormonism see: The Four Major Cults, by Anthony Hoekema; The Kingdom of the Cults, by Walter Martin (Author), Ravi Zacharias. These are just two out of a plethora of solid apologetic works available regarding Mormonism. They, along with other apologetic works can be readily used to verify my above statements.

In closing, while we can not accept Mormonism’s doctrine, their enthusiasm and sacrifice often put the Church of Jesus Christ to shame.

Their educational vision and extensive use of modern methods to reach the masses should serve as an example to the Church of Jesus Christ.

They are more diligent in calling and in their giving.

Their commitment to proclaiming their “gospel”, even though it is false, should convict us of our own negligence and apathy in bearing witness to the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Mormon’s focus on the family and community is commendable.

However, in spite of all these positive qualities, Mormonism is still a cult. It is not biblical Christianity. It denies that there is only one God, denies the true Gospel and has supplanted it with another so-called “gospel”, adds works to salvation, presents a false/different jesus, denies that Jesus is the uncreated creator, distorts the biblical teaching of the atonement, and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible because it has another source of authority regarding faith and practice which supplants and replaces the Bible.

In spite of it’s claim on being the exclusive community of the saved/redeemed, Mormonism is not.

In light of the above, Mormonism is not Christian, or Christianity, it is a cult, a non-Christian religion.

Even though many Mormons are perceived as “good people” (as man reckons “goodness”), although they worship “a” god, and share some common words with Christians (although these words have distinctly different meanings/definitions), in spite of the fact that they help their people, and do many “good things”; none of the above criteria makes anyone a Christian.

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus warned: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” (NKJV).

No one becomes a Christian by belonging to a particular church or religious organization, by doing “good works”, or simply “believing in God”. According to the Bible, a person can only become a Christian when they have personally put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his fully accomplished work of Calvary for the payment of their sins i.e., when they have received Him as their savior, trusting in the true and living God alone for salvation, in the True Jesus as presented in the Word of God, not the brother of the devil, the “jesus” of Mormonism; not the god of Mormonism, not the gospel of Mormonism.

66 posted on 08/07/2007 9:07:44 AM PDT by Jmouse007
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