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How the U.S. can avoid its own version of the fall of the Roman empire
Jewish World Review ^ | 01 Aug 2007 | Rod Dreher

Posted on 08/01/2007 12:17:29 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Are we Rome?

That is, are we Americans, citizens of the mightiest empire the world has known since the days of the Caesars, living in the last days of our civilization? Is the United States, like the Western Roman Empire in the fifth century, doomed to collapse from its own decadence? Or can we avoid Rome's fate?

As historian Arnold J. Toynbee famously observed, "Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder." While any number of Rome's particular poisons could have been most responsible for its demise, the generally accepted view is that wealth and power corrupted its character, eroding the virtues that made Rome great and leading to its ultimate dissolution.

In his fascinating new book "Are We Rome?" journalist Cullen Murphy argues that yes, contemporary America is unnervingly like the Late Roman Empire. But it also has saving graces and resources that the doomed Romans lacked.

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: america; americanempire; rome
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This is right, but not entirely so. Murphy does not pay enough attention to the health of our culture. Classical historian Jerome Carcopino, for example, pointed to the loss of social cohesion and purpose that resulted from the traditional family's decline as a reason for Rome's collapse. The habits of civic virtue that Murphy identifies as critical come first from an ordered home and a commonly shared commitment to remissive moral norms, which contemporary American individualism undermines.

Must be a Communist.

/libertarian

1 posted on 08/01/2007 12:17:33 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

not this stuff again


2 posted on 08/01/2007 12:20:28 PM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Ping for later reading


3 posted on 08/01/2007 12:20:28 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Rome started to give away all its treasure, gave wheat away to it poor only to get more poor. In this sense, with foreign aid and all the give-away programs we are like Rome.


4 posted on 08/01/2007 12:21:50 PM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

the generally accepted view is that wealth and power corrupted its character, eroding the virtues that made Rome great and leading to its ultimate dissolution.
***Sounds familiar.


5 posted on 08/01/2007 12:23:05 PM PDT by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq — via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Just more jargon, more crap : )


6 posted on 08/01/2007 12:23:20 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! "Read my lips....No new RINO's" !!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Focusing on “contemporary America” is putting the cart before the horse. We may save the restof the world while it sinks into barbarism of MUslim Hegemony.


7 posted on 08/01/2007 12:23:52 PM PDT by x_plus_one (As long as we pretend to not be fighting Iran in Iraq, we can't pretend to win the war.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
The "Republic" (ours) has had one of the greatest runs of any in history. But let's face it, I believe our greatest days are behind us. Even good Ole' Ben Franklin, knew that our great experiment would work only until we mistakingly figured out that we could "vote" ourselves anything we want.

The hand writing has been on the wall for quite some time now. We might be able to slow the slide a bit, but the dye has been cast and we are spiraling down the same type of sink hole the Romans found themselves in.

History does indeed repeat itself, especially when it comes to the attitudes and actions of mankind.

8 posted on 08/01/2007 12:24:27 PM PDT by ImpBill ("America ... Where are you now?" --Greg Adams--Brownsville, TX --On the other Front Line)
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To: edcoil

Something else to consider was that the Romans continually drained their specie eastward, buying all kinds of goods from India and points east, while having no goods to trade in return that anybody wanted. Gold flowed out of the empire, even while goods flowed in.


9 posted on 08/01/2007 12:24:55 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Fred Dalton Thompson for President)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Empires fall when their armies can no longer function (for a variety of reasons). We can argue this all day. But Rome fell because their armies failed.

America’s military is still the finest in the world, probably in the history of the world. No one can match it. America is still safe...for a while.

10 posted on 08/01/2007 12:25:32 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Kevmo

If we just clean house in D C we will be okay.

Too many politicians have been bought off, and others clearly don’t care about our sovereignty.


11 posted on 08/01/2007 12:26:21 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! "Read my lips....No new RINO's" !!)
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To: Retired Greyhound
This "Fall of the Roman Empire" stuff is based on limited information.

It's more like a mini-state next door to Rome that came in and replaced the regime.

Rome itself continued on another century (East and West), and after the big comet that destroyed everything, another 9 centuries (East).

Two things the Fall warns us about are: (1) Canada, and (2) Real big comets.

12 posted on 08/01/2007 12:27:20 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: stephenjohnbanker

You are absolutely correct in your statement. Thank you very much!! Liberals and RINO’s are doing more to destroy this country than any enemy. Combine that with Americans that don’t want to face that reality and we’re SOL.


13 posted on 08/01/2007 12:30:38 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: edcoil

Not to mention the hoards of illegals taking but, not giving.....wanting to reclaim their ancient lands and send us packing.


14 posted on 08/01/2007 12:31:32 PM PDT by wolfcreek (2 bad Tyranny, Treachery and Treason never take a vacation...)
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To: ImpBill
Maybe you're a quitter.

America isn't.

15 posted on 08/01/2007 12:33:59 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Perhaps Mr. Dreher, Ms. Murphy, et al. should just shoot themselves and get it over with.


16 posted on 08/01/2007 12:37:23 PM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

WELL, THERE THEY GO AGAIN. RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT MAXIMUS


17 posted on 08/01/2007 12:38:46 PM PDT by CHEE
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

First, if you have to ask the question you’re not plugged in to what is going on (the answer is yes).

Second nobody in power will do what is required to restore the country. They would not be able to handle the media and liberal backlash.


18 posted on 08/01/2007 12:39:19 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Rome didn't collapse in one fell swoop...although the Western part of the Empire (former Republic) was effectively lost after AD 476, the Eastern part of the Empire endured until Constantinople fell in AD 1453.

As for Murphy: the general moral decay present in American society can be traced back to the continued attacks on the family and on the Church, although I don't think that that the spirit of individualism is to blame. Perhaps what Murphy meant to talk about was the excessive focus on consumption, the "me me me" attitude that pervades certain segments of our society.

The way things are progressing, we may see the fragile United States break apart into a motley of squabbling individual States. Perhaps the illegals will rebel and create Aztlan. It's hard to tell.

The Republic will endure, but not everywhere...until another rises to take its place, or until a One World Government ushers in the End Times.

19 posted on 08/01/2007 12:39:19 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Sic Semper Tyrannis * U.Va. Engineering '09 * Friends Don't Let Friends Vote Democrat * Fred in 2008)
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To: ImpBill; ExTexasRedhead; All

Our problem is D C, not Americans, who are still the hardest working, God fearing people on earth.


20 posted on 08/01/2007 12:39:19 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! "Read my lips....No new RINO's" !!)
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