Harry Potter: 3 More Things I Learned

ExileStreet ^ | 8/1/07 | John Mark Reynolds

[ParsifalCA]

I am warning those who have not finished the series . . . and there must be still a few of them by now. . . that there are spoilers ahead. I have just finished the last book . . . having spent an enjoyable evening with it thanks to Sam’s Club and an indulgent wife.

I am done with Harry Potter and enjoying the literary aftertaste the way one enjoys a fine meal almost as much after it is done as when it is being consumed . . . though it is a bit sad that the series is finished.

And it is really finished . . .

Will one be able to re-read the books with pleasure?

I think the answer is only a tentative “yes.” If one knows the “puzzles” and “the secrets” of the book, it will not take away the charm of the characters or the fun of a good Quidditch match, but the first read will always be the best.

The strength of these books is in the plot and the second read, when everything is known, will be satisfying for finding all the clues to what happens . . . but I am hard pressed to know if I will want to re-read them a third or fourth time.

A really great book is as good on the fourth read . . . and some children’s books (Little White Horse) are better.

I deeply enjoyed the last book and thought the ending satisfying. For those who found them quite Christian, they will find much in this last book to give strength to their idea.

[TexasAg1996]

So B&N has a sudden, unrelated desire to sell occult books and they think the way to do so is to put them on or next to the HP books???

Please don't tell us that the only evidence you have about the occult connection in Harry Potter is the fact that some bookstores put the books together when the HP books go on sale. Because that's the weakest argument I've seen since someone recently wrote here that he knew JK Rowling was a hack "without reading a word" of her books.

[I still care]

If you want to hear a touch of the Harry Potter books, here is a site. Jim Dale is the best reader I’ve ever heard for children’s books. From what I heard, he does over a hundred different character voices in Deathly Hallows.

http://www.randomhouse.com/audio/features/harrypotter/

[PetroniusMaximus]

“The Pagan Federation, which represents druids and witches, says it has been “swamped” with calls following teenage programmes featuring good witches. Speaking to BBC News Online the Pagan Federation’s Steve Paine, the high priest of a coven, said the hit US drama Buffy and the highly successful Harry Potter books were popular amongst practising witches. “They are taken as fantasy entertainment. But they do encourage people to think about different forms of spirituality”, he said. The Pagan Federation, which deals with about 100 enquiries a month from youngsters who want to become witches, does not allow anyone under the age of 18 to become a member.” Most of the enquiries are from 14 to 18 year-olds, and are dealt with “reactively” by a specially-appointed youth officer, an Essex based schoolteacher.” (BBC News Online, Buffy Draws Children to Witchcraft, Friday, 4 August, 2000, Full article at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_864000/864984.stm).

“According to Mr Smith, children who had enjoyed the magic and wizardry of the stories should be careful about extending their interest in the occult. Although saying that the stories were a positive way of showing the struggle between good and evil, he was worried that they could be used as a springboard for exploring more sinister aspects of the occult. And he warned that children could be using the internet to learn more about “meddling” with the supernatural. “Increasing numbers of children are spending hours alone browsing the Internet in search of satanic websites. ATL is concerned that nobody is monitoring this growing fascination.” (BBC News Online, Harry Potter ‘Occult’ Warning, Monday 5 November, full article at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/newsid_1638000/1638887.stm)

Actual Occult Practices

Curses and counter-curses (Philosopher`s Stone, p. 62; Goblet of Fire, pp. 187-194; ).

Astrology, Fortune telling (Philosopher`s Stone, pp. 188-190; Prisoner of Azkaban, p. 45, 47; Goblet of Fire, pp. 116-117).

Rune stones (Prisoner of Azkaban, p. 45, 47).

Palmistry, Divination, Crystal ball gazing, Tea leaf reading, Auras. (Prisoner of Azkaban, pp. 45; 79-86).

Arithmancy (a Chaldean and Greek method of divination by numbers) (Prisoner of Azkaban, pp. 45; 79-86; Goblet of Fire, p. 171).

Charms, Incantations (Prisoner of Azkaban, p. 176).

Numerology (Prisoner of Azkaban, p. 232).

More here:
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/harrypotterarticle.htm

[PetroniusMaximus]

Ping to #143

[finnigan2]

I have never read the Potter books, but it doesn’t detract from my admiration of the author. Imagine, an unemployed nobody on welfare conceived the whole series in her head, from scratch, then had the self discipline to sit down and begin to write it in a local coffee shop while at the same time babysitting her young child. Her very first volume got published right away (no small feat for an aspiring writer) and she’s just gone on to billionaire status.
She must be a remarkable woman.
I saw her on a Biography special and she said the entire concept came to her while waiting on a train whose departure had been delayed. She even showed a handwritten copy of the last chapter of the last book which she had written at the very beginning, just to prove she could finish it and to set herself a goal to work toward. That handwritten chapter will probably end up some day in the literary section of the British Museum, alongside the drafts from the likes of Charles Dickens, Lewis Carroll and the Bronte sisters.

[Durus]

Are you claiming to have read every book and are honestly stating that there are 6 or 7 cliches per page? Or have you merely read the critique that you are fond of posting here and infer from it that there are 6 or 7 cliches per page? Either way you are obviously incorrect, but I honestly doubt you have read all the books.

[PetroniusMaximus]

“Please don’t tell us that the only evidence you have about the occult connection in Harry Potter is the fact that some bookstores put the books together when the HP books go on sale.”

Of course no. There’s plenty of other evidence. What that example clearly shows is what many here are unable to admit - there is a clear link between HP and occultism.

[ReignOfError]

All of the “spells” in the HP books were made up completely by JK herself. There’s no occultism there.

But there's Latin. Not to make too much of it, but kids who grew up on Harry potter have that in the back of their heads. Because of wingardium leviosa,, they know that levi-involves weightlessness; because of the curse, they know that cruci- involves pain, as in crucible or crucifixion; they know that imperius relates to absolute control;\, expelliarmus involves things flying from one's grip; that Lupin relates to being a wolf; that Sirius is the dog star; that buboubers generate foul-smelling pus (as doe the buboes from which bubonic plague takes its name); that veritaserum elicits the truth, and so on.

In an elementary school spelling bee, I was hit with the word "buoyancy." I didn't know the word, but when I got the definition and knew that it involved the ability to float, and I knew what a buoy was. Armed with that, I went on to the next round. The same ability to make those associations also served me well on the verbal portion of the SAT -- I got a 700. Recognizing Latin and Greek root words is a basic function of building vocabulary, of decoding unfamiliar words and learning other languages, and Harry Potter readers have a head start.

[TexasAg1996]

Just like I suspected. Taken word for word from someone's website. Got an original thought in there?

The first quote is funny - a whole 100 people a month, and it's not based solely on HP, but apparently on stuff like vampire TV shows, as well. The second article (if you'd read it) mentions how kids have always been interested in magic and that parents and teachers need to educate their kids (no kidding).

[discostu]

Let’s see some so called pagan group that nobody ever heard of before they found a way to get on BBC says HP leads to the occult. Of course they offer no proof, they don’t even offer a reason to think they no anything. Garbage.

And then you get the general secretary of the association of teachers and lecturers, someone with no proof of any knowledge at all about the occult. More garbage.

And then you get spotlight ministries, one of the leading pack of lying fear mongers associated with Christianity. Not just garbage but filth that you’d be better off completely disassociating from. And most of their stuff is meaningless. The say “curses” in the HP books are bad, but they don’t bother to notice that all a “curse” is in HP is an attempt to harm someone with their powers.

I’ve read Crowley, I’ve read Levy. There’s no there there. HP magic has nothing at all to do with the occult.

[Lil'freeper]

Hillary does make a good Umbridge

I thought Albright. Simply because the character is repeatedly described as "toadlike". Heh.

[Ignatz]

I have no interest in discussing something like this with someone who is so closed-minded and who has very interesting interpretations of several Bible passages. You should go to some of the kook websites where you can talk about the evils of Harry Potter with more like-minded folks. I’ve known many people whose kids have read the books and shown absolutely no interest in becoming “true” witches and warlocks. Fiction isn’t real, you see.

I read the entire Hardy Boys series as a child, yet somehow I did NOT become a detective.
I've read the LOTR trilogy three times and have yet to become a Hobbit, a Dwarf, an Elf, a Wizard, or even an Orc. Nor did I develop a unhealthy passion for jewelry on a chain (maybe I should listen to rap [non-]music to develop that).
I have read Frankenstein several times, yet I have no desire to become a mad doctor who tries to induce life into the dead.
In the interest of full-disclosure, I must admit to having a desire spring into my heart after reading a book. I wanted dearly to build a log raft and lazily float down the Mississippi river with a friend. Guess which book!
My opinion? People of faith who fear the effects of fiction and fictional characters on their children have a weak faith, are weak parents, or both.
PM: Is God so powerless in your life that some children's fantasy stories, written by an everyday English mother, can destroy you and your family?

[Mom MD]

I am as conservative a Christian as they come - and I thoroughly enjoy Harry Potter. This is FICTION - and there are no exhortation or how to’s for witchcraft. No one doubts Tolkein’s Christianity, yet he wrote of wizards in his fantasy world.

Take the setting away, and there are actually some strongly Christian undertones to the story (intended or not)

My children understand that witchcraft is an abomination, and I have not found one of them trying to cast a spell after reading Harry Potter.

I think more Christians should read the book before they condemn it. I initially read the book to see if it would be OK for my children to read, and found myself enjoying it immensely. I have not missed a book since.

[TexasAg1996]

And what really seems to be lacking is the idea of parental responsibility. There’s no way I’d give a 9 or 10 year old a book like this (esp. the later ones), and I’d never just give it to them and not talk about it. But I certainly want my kids to read them when they are mature enough (as with any other book)!

[Corin Stormhands]

The minister of magic is Bill Clinton.

Depends on which Minister of Magic you mean.

Cornelius Fudge was simply in denial that Voldemort could/did return. I don't think he was inherently evil, but had more of a "if I don't think about it, it won't happen" attitude.

Rufus Scrimgour was more manipulative, but he did believe in the threat. He may be the closest to Clinton as he wanted to use Harry to enhance the image of the ministry.

Pius Thicknesse was in under an Imperious Curse. He was being controlled by Voledmort. Nobody controls Bill Clinton. Not even Bill Clinton.

[PetroniusMaximus]

“PM: Is God so powerless in your life that some children’s fantasy stories, written by an everyday English mother, can destroy you and your family?”

My faith is not at issue.

What is at issue is that the most popular children’s series of our generation glorifies soemthing that God has called an abomination.

[Pistolshot]

Ok.....so let's take a look at your two quotes.

Speaking .. the Pagan Federation’s Steve Paine,.., said the hit US drama Buffy and the highly successful Harry Potter books were popular amongst practising witches. “They are taken as fantasy entertainment. But they do encourage people to think about different forms of spirituality"

Are you saying that kids shouldn't think about spirituality other than what one religion directs them? Are you denying that man is a thinking animal able to discern good from evil, right from wrong?

"Although saying that the stories were a positive way of showing the struggle between good and evil, he was worried that they could be used as a springboard for exploring more sinister aspects of the occult..."

This is an emotional response with ZERO facts to support it. Try again.

[Corin Stormhands]

So, what’s worse?

Reading a bit of children’s fiction that uses a make believe magic as part of the story line...

Or studying and obsessing about all of the occult references in pop culture?

Seems like people who aren’t supposed to be reading about witchcraft sure are spending a heckuva lot of time reading about it.

But maybe that’s just me.

[PetroniusMaximus]

“I am as conservative a Christian as they come -”

From a previous post...

Now if there was a very popular childrens series about a couple of crack-addicted, teenage, male-prostitutes - and this series described the kids life and habits in detail (making it all seem fun) and also included a bunch of “life lessons” - would you want your kids to read this?

Remember, it’s all just fiction.

So, would you?

[TexasAg1996]

What is at issue is that the most popular children’s series of our generation glorifies soemthing that God has called an abomination.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If she'd called them Jedis and they used the Force, you wouldn't complain one bit. But because they're wizards and use magic, you'll condemn it. How's that for logical, clear-headed thinking?