Hostages made their own trouble

Toronto Sun ^ | 2007-08-01 | Peter Worthington

[Constantine XIII]

Nope. No one made the early Christians stay in the Empire, and no one made em preach the Gospel. Also, the Romans would have let them go if they’d just pour a libation to the old gods, scot free.

Likewise, I’m sure these folks would get off a lot easier if they’d agree that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his prophet.

Why are you choosing to fight and die on this particular hill, anyway? :p

[HitmanLV]

Morons.

[Constantine XIII]

PROTIP: The Taliban isn’t the government anywhere.

[oneamericanvoice]

The size of the world isn’t a surprise to God since He created it. Duh. But when Jesus said to go into “all” the world, He was talking about the known world. God was taking care of the unknown world.

Have you reached everyone in your backyard? Don’t you trust those on the “team” that are living in their neighborhoods?

Pain and danger are two different things. There are plenty of people that hate pain, but really like the thrill of danger. I hate pain too.

[oneamericanvoice]

I’m not dieing on this hill as you put it, nor am I fighting. I am discussing a subject though. The same questions could be posed to you, my friend?

[Jemian]

Don’t you trust those on the “team” that are living in their neighborhoods?

I think I can safely say that there is no one on the team where I work who has my training and can do my training. Be that as it may, one of my responsibilities is to train nationals as fast as I can. When we're no longer needed, my agency has a reputation for leaving.

[oneamericanvoice]

Thanks for the tip, but the Taliban is the government in the out reaches of Afghanistan. I wasn’t talking specifically about them though.

[oneamericanvoice]

What agency do you work for? What kind of work do you do?

[Jemian]

Because I work in a moslem country, I respectfully decline to completely answer your questions. I do work in SE Asia and I am on a team which brings God’s Word to those who don’t have it. My specific jobs include coordinating the training events at our center and also leading the middle school chapels at our ex-pat school.

[oneamericanvoice]

Completely understand. While I don’t agree with missionary work, I wish you well. I can only guess what you do since you gave insight by stating that you work with ex-pats. Say, “Hi” from the folks back home, please!

[P8riot]

Twice you've replied to me that missionaries act shadily against the governments where they work? How so, and do you have any evidence to back that up? I'll have you know that most missionary organizations stay within the laws of the lands where they are working, because they know that if they do break the law, they will be asked to leave and most of the work that they have done to that point will have been lost., and it will be a long time before they are allowed to return, if ever.

The only times I know of when we have had problems with any government, it has been where the scripture and the laws of the land conflict, and scripture will always take precedence. I know whereof I speak as I work with perhaps one of the largest, most effective non-denominational mission groups in the world.

BTW. I am not saying that you are a liberal, it's just that, to me, your arguments do not seem well thought out. I am just trying to get you to realize that there is a calling higher than just saving our skins.

As for your reply to my other post to you, I don't know what would've happened. I do believe that God's plan would've been accomplished no matter what, but the examples that these early martyrs gave us would not exist, there would be others.

History has shown, that it is in the times of greatest persecution that the church grows the most. That is not saying that we go looking for it. It is brought upon us. It is saying that during those times, all believers have left is their faith, and if your faith is week, or in the wrong things, you will not survive, at least not thrive. But those who thrive in times of persecution are examples to the rest of the believers that God does love and care for his church, but oft times has to weed out those things that cause us to take our eyes off Him. When all else is removed, and all there is left is God, and your relationship to Him then you grow closer to him, and he can use you more effectively, and more people can see by that example that there really is something to this, and it draws them.

[papertyger]

You serve as a reminder of what Ron White tells us, "You can't fix stupid."

I guess that sounds pretty profound if you're "Larry the Cable Guy." I prefer to take philosophical gems from sources with a bit more substance than "bread and circuses." This country is full of fools who have no more idea than a goat about the worldviews and motivations of those that built this country. Consequently, they have no more vision than their own gratification and security.

You seem to be under the misapprehension I'm questioning your motives and morality. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm evaluating your motives and morality and concluding they are loathsome and contemptable.

I can't begin to have the vulgarity it requires to condemn those following the explicit instruction of the founder of all Western Civilization. Our military men and women join for the specific purpose of defending such as these. They certainly don't join so you can enjoy a nicely manicured lawn and a daughter that sneaks out at night. But God bless them, they do seem to join so they can defend the right of a damn fool to quote stand up comics while deluding himself into thinking he's explaining something above anyone's head.

[oneamericanvoice]

The only times I know of when we have had problems with any government, it has been where the scripture and the laws of the land conflict, and scripture will always take precedence. By your own admission, there have been incidents when missionaries have disrespected/disobeyed the "laws of the land" because they felt scripture compelled them to do so. I'm very sure Jesus and God would disapprove. As for personal knowledge, I cite the daughter of a friend being a part of a group working clandestinally in China. The Chinese put people to death for such activities, yet those with a martyr complex are willing to gamble. Leah was detained, and some of her party were treated rather roughly. They were just lucky. It is funny that you don't think my arguments are not well thought out, because I feel the same about yours and the others supporting these Koreans. No disrespect intended. I understand "higher callings", but there is no justification for these actions, scriptural or otherwise. If God's plan will be accomplished then there is no reason to put oneself in peril, now is there? God will accomplish what He wills, in His time. These people aren't being persecuted. They are being acted upon in a heinous manner brought on by their actions. I believe that they should assume personal responsibility for these consequences, rather than being viewed as martyrs. Yet, I am deeply saddended by each of their deaths, and pray that the remainder will be set free. The other concern is that they are Lefties. While I don't wish death or torture on Lefties, I do wonder what these folks have been spreading...under the guise of the Gospel. As I stated, I don't approve of missionary work in general for the reason that you stated of "leading by example". I do not approve of going into a community and doing good works in exchange for conversions. Primarily, I find that missionary work has led to the destruction of cultures. But that is for another discussion. Take care.

[Balding_Eagle]

LOL! Any more questions t30?

[papertyger]

The LORD bless and keep you. The LORD make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious unto you. The LORD lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

Please accept this blessing from a wicked sinner who would rather die defending you because he lacks the courage to walk with you.

[Jemian]

Please accept this blessing from a wicked sinner who would rather die defending you because he lacks the courage to walk with you.

I humbly accept the blessing along with a confession that every day I struggle with sin. I confess jealousy, hatred and strife. I am far from perfect and therefore ask that you continue to pray that prayer for me and my family. We cannot do our work without you "covering our back."

[P8riot]

I don't approve of missionary work in general for the reason that you stated of "leading by example". I do not approve of going into a community and doing good works in exchange for conversions. Primarily, I find that missionary work has led to the destruction of cultures. But that is for another discussion. Take care.

I wonder how you reconcile that believe with Christ's mandate that we "go into all the world," etc...

[WashingtonSource]

We should be sending more, not fewer missionaries. There are a number who are willing to convert if Afghanistan. Those who believe in the Gospel must go forth and tell the good news to people who are lost in a barbaric “religion” which is nothing more than a death cult. Ultimately, the missionaries’ work is more vital than that of the soldiers.

[twntaipan]

I find that missionary work has led to the destruction of cultures.

Interesting conclusion. Not sure what you base that on other than speculation.

What would be the impact of non-missionary contact between cultures? Only benign and beneficial? Only the Christians causing problems?

Nothing in Christian missionary activity has caused as much destruction to cultures as did naturalistic/humanistic/atheistic Marxism-Leninism. Mao's Cultural Revolution comes to mind immediately.

[American in Israel]

Because rightiousness lost in a war, looses the soul and wins the war for evil. If we become like these blood thirsty kill the innocent terrorists to wipe them out by executing hostages, they win.

Though I agree with you, just not the method. I would say use nukes.