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A quiet discussion is under way at the Virginia State Capitol in Richmond. Its outcome will reveal much about the character of the commonwealth in 2007.

"We do find it very distressing that the Confederate flag has not been restored to the chamber where it has historically resided," Brandon Dorsey of the Virginia Division of Sons of Confederate Veterans wrote to Bruce Jamerson, clerk of the House of Delegates.

No, Mr. Dorsey, it hasn't, and it shouldn't.

The Confederate battle flag used to hang in the old House chamber, just off the rotunda. It was draped next to the speaker's chair with the flags of Virginia, the United States and West Point.

Those flags came down during the recent Capitol renovations. The $105 million project is worth checking out. Thomas Jefferson's Capitol building looks fabulous.

So far, though, none of the four flags has gone back up.

While standing in the quiet chamber recently, Jamerson said he and other officials are still weighing the merits of restoring them.

"You want an accurate historical renovation," he explained.

Contrary to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, the battle flag historically was not part of the old House chamber. Jamerson is unsure when it went up, but a painting of the room from the 1860s and a photo from the 1890s show no flags around the speaker's chair.

Nor would the battle flag even fit well with the statue of Robert E. Lee that stands in the chamber. The statue commemorates April 23, 1861, the day Lee accepted command of the forces of Virginia. No battle flag would have flown then because it did not yet exist. Its first use was in November of that year.

By Labor Day, Jamerson will present options to House Speaker William Howell, who will make the final decision on the flag. Hopefully he will choose a Capitol that welcomes all Virginians and not cave to pressure from Confederate heritagists and apologists who naïvely believe theirs is the only valid history of the flag.

The flag -- yes, I know it took many forms -- originally did represent the soldiers of the Confederacy, the average men who fought for their nation and not necessarily for slavery. History supports that view.

Yet Virginians cannot claim intellectual honesty while ignoring the other meanings it embodies.

The battle flag is also a symbol of hatred and racism. Even if it were pure up until the mid-20th century -- a dubious proposition -- the forces of intolerance seized the flag for themselves. The Ku Klux Klan, Dixiecrats and other segregationists used and abused it.

The battle flag is not unique as a corrupted symbol. The swastika, for example, was a peaceful symbol of good for thousands of years around the world. Nazi Germany turned it into a terrible thing.

Southerners are not equivalent to Nazis by any stretch of the imagination, but evil people twisted and tainted whatever the battle flag once nobly embodied, just as they did to the swastika.

Racism and slavery now are inextricably interwoven into the battle flag's fabric.

John Coski, historian and library director for the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, observed, "Many people today have a visceral personal experience of seeing those flags waved in anger."

The hate most strongly associated with the flag occured in their lifetimes. Any original use is distant past.

The flag also symbolizes rebellion, insurrection and even treason. The armies that carried it into battle sought to sunder a great nation.

The South lost, and the nation was preserved. Virginians today are residents of the U.S.A. not the C.S.A.

George Washington did not fly the British flag at Mount Vernon after the Revolution. Virginia should not fly a Confederate flag in its capitol. We owe no allegiance to that nation.

Though the old House chamber still hosts a few official functions, including the quadrennial meeting of Virginia's Electoral College representatives, it is primarily a stop for tourists. More than 100,000 visitors pass through its doors every year.

Some would see the battle flag and smile. Others would see it and curse. History justifies both reactions, and the state cannot impose just one.

"The reality is that all these varied uses are based on actual experiences," Coski said. "Regardless of what you want the flag to mean, ... it behooves you to understand why the other guy doesn't agree."

Coski takes no position on whether the flag should hang in the Capitol.

If Virginia has truly moved beyond racism, rebellion and intolerance, if it truly meant its expression of regret for slavery, then endorsing the antithesis of those convictions is not an option.

Hang the flag on your house if you wish to evoke Southern heritage, other historic meanings be damned. Put a sticker on your truck. Paint it on the top of your 1969 Dodge Charger. Pretend, if you must, that you offend no one.

Just don't hang it in the Capitol, in the commonwealth's heart, where all should be equal and welcome.

1 posted on 07/31/2007 10:31:14 AM PDT by Rebeleye
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To: Rebeleye

Yeah, the Klan used the CSA battle flag. So did the Dukes of Hazzard.

Whatever you think of putting it in the capitol, liberals think you can absolve yourself of bad history by simply keeping it out of sight.

At the samet time, liberals reserve the right to self-flaggelate about American history at any time in the name of white guilt.


2 posted on 07/31/2007 10:34:48 AM PDT by MIT-Elephant ("Armed with what? Spitballs?")
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To: Rebeleye

Does this mean they have to take down the statue of Robert E. Lee? This is foolish.


3 posted on 07/31/2007 10:37:09 AM PDT by RC2
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To: Rebeleye

This editorial has everything to do with political correctness and very little to do with “racism, rebellion and intolerance.” The Washington Post would be proud.


4 posted on 07/31/2007 10:37:11 AM PDT by tgusa (Gun control: deep breath, sight alignment, squeeze the trigger .....)
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To: Rebeleye

Now how can there be anything but good attached to this symbol of the old south???

5 posted on 07/31/2007 10:37:41 AM PDT by Vaquero
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To: Rebeleye

“The flag also symbolizes rebellion, insurrection and even treason.” Sounds like the Democratic Party ought to adopt it as their symbol, based on what he wrote...


8 posted on 07/31/2007 10:45:11 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum)
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To: Rebeleye

So “the forces of intolerance seized the flag for themselves”, eh? Remember when a rainbow on a flag was just a rainbow?


10 posted on 07/31/2007 10:47:14 AM PDT by printhead
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To: Rebeleye
Southerners are not equivalent to Nazis by any stretch of the imagination, but evil people twisted and tainted whatever the battle flag once nobly embodied, just as they did to the swastika.

Beg to differ...the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia did not represent genocide...besides, the KKK also totes around the cross and American flag. Does that mean you believe these symbols have been "twisted and tainted" as well?

Racism and slavery now are inextricably interwoven into the battle flag's fabric

So are ignorance and contrived hatred.

14 posted on 07/31/2007 10:53:08 AM PDT by meandog (Bush's name now synonymous with every bad word known.)
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To: slow5poh; EdReform; TheZMan; Texas Mulerider; Oorang; freedomfiter2; SWEETSUNNYSOUTH; BnBlFlag; ...

Dixie ping


15 posted on 07/31/2007 10:54:30 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Rebeleye
Virginia should not fly a Confederate flag in its capitol. We owe no allegiance to that nation.

As I owe no allegiance to the union. Which is why I do not own, say a pledge to, nor fly a union flag. Ever. There's nothing wrong with the Battle Flag flying anywhere. However if truth be known, they should have the First National flying somewhere on the Capitol grounds

16 posted on 07/31/2007 10:59:44 AM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: Rebeleye

A seccession is neither a rebellion nor an insurrection. If symbols matter, words matter more.


17 posted on 07/31/2007 11:04:51 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: Rebeleye

You can go on back to Ohio any time, Chrissie.


19 posted on 07/31/2007 11:09:02 AM PDT by nina0113 (If fences don't work, why does the White House have one?)
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To: Rebeleye

Christian Trejbal: The philosopher, mathematician and historian discovered editorial writing. "Who needs to finish a Ph.D.?" he asked. From Cleveland, by way of Indiana, Minnesota and Oregon, Christian Trejbal landed in Southwest Virginia.

******

March 14, 2007

Update on Roanoke Times-Christian Trejbal

Charlotte, NC (TLS). The Roanoke Times newspaper and its editorial writer, Christian Trejbal, are apparently up to their eyeballs in an explosive controversy over the publication of the names and addresses of registered owners of concealed weapons in the state of Virginia.

******

Christian Trejbal is 36, single, just came to Christiansburg last fall from Bend, Oregon to work as an columnist for the Roanoke Times, and has a Masters degree in philosophy from the U. of Minnesota (2000). He is rather liberal to say the least.

******

Trejbal wrote, "A state that puts sex offender data online complete with an interactive map could easily do the same with gun permits, but it does not. ... There are plenty of reasons to question the wisdom of widespread gun ownership, too."

28 posted on 07/31/2007 11:21:53 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: Rebeleye
The battle flag is also a symbol of hatred and racism. Even if it were pure up until the mid-20th century -- a dubious proposition -- the forces of intolerance seized the flag for themselves. The Ku Klux Klan, Dixiecrats and other segregationists used and abused it.


30 posted on 07/31/2007 11:30:28 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: Rebeleye

“Virginians today are residents of the U.S.A. not the C.S.A.”

Yea. It’s a shame isn’t it?


33 posted on 07/31/2007 12:01:34 PM PDT by Mane in Virginia (Virginians please join www.vcdl.org)
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To: Rebeleye

“Southerners are not equivalent to Nazis by any stretch of the imagination, but evil people twisted and tainted whatever the battle flag once nobly embodied, just as they did to the swastika.

Racism and slavery now are inextricably interwoven into the battle flag’s fabric.”

BS


34 posted on 07/31/2007 12:05:22 PM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: All

The confederate flag deserves some respect as a historical artifact but NOT as a current symbol.

Under the law, the CSA is a failed government. Failed governments are extinct and do not garner the impramatur of an extant government.

the confederate flag in a museum, definitly. The confederate flag next to active government bodies? no.


38 posted on 07/31/2007 12:30:34 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Rebeleye

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: when it becomes acceptable to ban public display of the stars and bars in the south, then the banning of the stars and stripes everywhere will soon follow.


39 posted on 07/31/2007 12:42:18 PM PDT by JamesP81 (Keep your friends close; keep your enemies at optimal engagement range)
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To: Rebeleye

Anybody that thinks this is really only about the confederate flag better wake up. How about the Alamo? When the Mestizos become majority do you think they will want to celebrate the Alamo? How about many of our founding fathers? You know the “evil slave holders” Think as multiculturalism progresses that Washington, Jefferson & Henry et al will still be seen as heroes? The list is endless. We see it happening right now. In CA certain streets or buildings are now seeing the majority Hispanic population wanting to change or rededicate them. And this is after some of them already were rename years ago from white leaders to black leaders. This is not even counting all the renaming that goes on in the south. Where does it stop?


41 posted on 07/31/2007 12:51:15 PM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: Rebeleye

BTW this Christian Trejbal and the Roanoke Times is the same publication that published all the addresses for the concealed weapons permit holders awhile back.

He also regularly shows his disdain for the south and southern people. Not sure why he moved here in the first place.


42 posted on 07/31/2007 12:53:48 PM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: Rebeleye
The battle flag is also a symbol of hatred and racism

I agree. I remember being at JFK trying to get a taxi cab to take me to the international terminal because I was about to miss my connecting flight. It took several attempts, and dirty looks and "fingers" from the mostly black cabbies, before I realized that I did not stand a chance, a white girl with a battle flag tied to the strap of my carry-on luggage! Hatred and racism? I think so, although not in the sense the author suggested. BTW, the plane waited for me, left almost 45 minutes late.

49 posted on 07/31/2007 1:41:49 PM PDT by Former Fetus
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