Posted on 07/20/2007 5:11:30 AM PDT by Mad Dawg
And a lawsuit is being prepared.
Norfolk passed an ILLEGAL 'no guns' ordinance a few months ago (no, I am NOT kidding) and ENFORCED that illegal ordinance against a VCDL member!
Bad, bad, bad mistake.
New firearms ordinances, other than those to control discharge or hunting, have been illegal in the Commonwealth since 1987! But Norfolk appears to have been passing a series of gun banning ordinances pertaining to various festivals that the City has put on over the years!
Unbelievable. And Norfolk, of all places, KNOWS better than to do that. (VCDL has had TWO large turnouts at City Council meetings a few years ago to make sure that City Council was aware of Virginia's preemption laws.)
But, Norfolk did it anyway and now it's time to pay the piper.
Worse, within the last month, Norfolk police have also harassed two other gun owners who were lawfully carrying openly, one black and one white - each was accosted on TWO separate occasions! More on those incidents later in the alert.
Here's the story of the false arrest under an illegal ordinance (if you take blood pressure medicine, now is the time to take it for this is going to be very unsettling). Sorry for the length, but it will read quickly:
Chet Szymecki arrived at Sail Virginia 2007, a tall ship festival in Norfolk, with his family (wife, their three children, and two other children from other families [all 13 and under]) around 2:30 PM on Sunday, June 10th, 2007.
As luck would have it, Dennis O'Connor and I were also at that same festival about the same time - but Chet didn't know that we were there and vice versa! Damn, I wish I had known what was about to transpire!
Chet, who was open carrying on that beautiful day, crossed paths with dozens of officers, with many being cognizant of the fact that he was openly carrying.
At 4:30 Chet and family had just ordered some waffle cakes and returned to a music area for an upcoming show. Chet was approached by a black female Norfolk Sheriff's officer and was asked if he was a police officer.
Chet responded, "No."
The officer then stated that Chet must leave the festival area immediately since he was not permitted to carry a firearm there. At the same time another Sheriff's deputy closed in, and one more hung back a few feet. The officer began communicating on her radio and Chet was expecting the situation to totally dissolve within minutes and he could then continue to enjoy the rest of the show with no further interruption.
Within a few seconds two groups of officers from the Norfolk Police Department approached from two different directions.
The primary group had 5-6 officers, and from the look on a Lieutenant's face Chet could tell that things were quickly becoming exponentially worse.
The Lieutenant came within inches of Chet and in a very condescending tone of voice stated that Chet had two choices: leave the park or go to jail.
While appearing to be as non-confrontational as possible (one hand holding his waffle cake and the other feeding his mouth) Chet began to reply that this must be a simple misunderstanding since he is permitted to carry.
Chet was cut off and, as the Lieutenant leaned in to intimidate him, the Lieutenant raised his voice and just about shouted that Chet had only two choices: leave immediately or be arrested.
Chet was still in shock and once again began to speak. Not waiting to hear what Chet had to say, the Lieutenant immediately told the other officers to arrest Chet!
In the following seconds Chet had hands all over him. One officer was tugging at Chet's pistol, having much difficulty removing it. Chet was worried about an accidental discharge with his family being literally feet away.
Other officers were pulling Chet's arms around his back and cuffing him. Chet offered no resistance.
Chet's wife began to speak and she was immediately pushed back by a black female Sheriff's deputy!
Chet's children were just about panicking watching their law-abiding father being stripped of his dignity while their mother was being forced back and being told that she may be arrested if she failed to comply.
Chet's wife attempted to record the scene on her cellular phone and was told she would be arrested if she did not secure her phone immediately!!!
The police then forcibly escorted Ms. Szymecki and her children off the property and left them standing on a street corner in Norfolk, all alone and without car keys (Chet had them and the police would not retrieve them). How very shameful.
A totally unnecessary use of force by the police on someone who was not threatening anyone, leaving a wife and young children on a street corner, totally unprotected.
Congratulations, Norfolk, those police-state tactics would have made Stalin smile warmly at you.
While being whisked away, Chet stated that he was aware that he was being unlawfully disarmed and detained and he demanded to be released immediately.
That didn't draw any response.
After a few minutes when Chet and the police were in a clear area where an Explosive Ordinance Disposal van was parked, along with many other police vehicles, Chet was instructed to face a wall.
Chet informed the officers that the handcuffs were agonizingly tight and repeated that he was not a threat to any of them and asked that the handcuffs be loosened.
Two officers were behind Chet holding him - one officer replied while squeezing the cuffs tighter that "they were not meant to feel comfortable." Nothing like having a sadist on the police payroll. I knew a couple of officers like this who worked the jail in San Antonio.
Chet was just sickened by the lack of professionalism and, as an ex-law enforcement officer and law abiding citizen, SO AM I!
After a half hour or so, and asking a few more times to have his cuffs be loosened, Chet was placed in the rear of a squad car. At that time Chet's left hand was totally numb and his right shoulder was aching.
Chet informed the officer in the police car that Chet was a veteran retired from active service and had sustained injuries in the line of duty - Chet's right arm being one of the injured areas.
Chet informed him that his right Brachial Plexus nerve group was torn from his spine and he had limited use and mobility of his right arm. Chet stated again that he simply wanted the cuffs behind his back to be readjusted.
The most the officer could offer was a suggestion on how to sit back in the squad car in a comfortable way. Needless to say - Chet, who had done nothing wrong, was very uncomfortable.
Several times one officer approached Chet and stated that "in a town of 200,000 or more like ours you cannot carry around a gun like you can in other places."
Chet told the officer that that law did not apply since: (1) the gun Chet was carrying was not classified as a "firearm" in that code section and (2) Chet had a concealed carry permit which rendered the entire section inapplicable to him.
Chet was told he did not know what he was talking about and Chet had no business carrying a gun while in Norfolk.
Speaking of being ignorant of Virginia gun laws, that officer needs remedial training. What a disgrace.
While in the cruiser an officer approached Chet and once again Chet was offered a choice: sign a summons or go visit the magistrate.
Being unfamiliar with the entire process and not understanding the gravity of the decision, Chet asked for additional clarification. The officer was polite and informed Chet that signing a summons was not an admission of guilt and he was simply promising to show up at a future court date. By not signing the summons Chet would go in front of a magistrate and this, along with the associated processing, would take many hours. Signing the summons would only take a few minutes and then Chet could be released.
DOES EVERYONE NOW UNDERSTAND WHY VCDL FOUGHT A BILL EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED OFFICERS TO THROW SOMEONE IN JAIL FOR ANY CLASS 1 OR CLASS 2 MISDEAMEANOR AT WILL? Any doubts in your mind that these officers would have done so to further humiliate and intimidate Chet if they were given the option?
Chet asked what would happen if the magistrate realized that this was all a simple mistake. The officer informed Chet that even if the magistrate released him, the police could issue a bench warrant and keep Chet in jail until his court date!!! Any doubt that these officers would have done so?
It seemed that signing the summons was the proper choice and Chet signed it. I agree.
Chet asked for his pistol to be returned and one of the officers stated that it was being held as evidence. Chet asked him for a receipt for his confiscated property. The officer stated that he had a pistol, one magazine, nine rounds of ammunition, and a holster. The officer said his verbal receipt was sufficient!
Like hell!
Chet was also forced to provide his Social Security Number - Chet asked if this were voluntary or mandatory - Chet was told it was mandatory. WRONG again, Norfolk Police! Chet was also forced to fingerprint his summons papers in four areas.
Arriving home almost two hours later, Chet was forced to skip a previously planned dinner engagement with another family and seek treatment at a local medical facility. Chet said he has a high tolerance for pain and discomfort but his right arm/shoulder and the back of his neck was just killing him.
Chet was examined by the doctor and prescribed medications. The doctor stated that since his arm has limited movement and the officers forced it into this unnatural position for over an hour, muscles and ligaments were probably strained.
Chet contacted me that evening and related the above story. The next morning I was on the phone to Norfolk City Attorney, Bernard Pishko.
Mr. Pishko proceeded to tell me that the public streets for the event were considered private property and thus guns could be banned. I told him that the "Festevents" organization that was running the festival was nothing but an arm of the City and could NOT ban guns. I also said that if the private property part were true, why had Chet not been arrested for trespass, but was instead charged under a City ordinance?
Mr. Pishko said I wasn't a lawyer and didn't know what I was talking about. He suggested that he could drop the charges against Chet, but said that perhaps this issue should be settled in court. Mr. Pishko said he was comfortable that the City would win.
Dream on, sir.
However, Mr. Pishko said the charges would be dropped and he kept his word. The charges were "Nollo Prossed" at Chet's court hearing on June 22nd and Chet is now in the process of getting his record expunged.
Chet was charged under City Code 42660 Section 3c (weapon/firearm in festival area).
In order to gather information the City may have on this incident, VCDL has already sent Freedom of Information Act requests to the
* Norfolk Sheriff, to find out which officer started this whole thing, along with any supporting information
* Norfolk Police, to get a copy of ALL radio traffic and other documents relating to Chet's arrest.
* Norfolk City Attorney, on the City's relationship with "Festevents" and to get a copy of the offending ordinance
The dollar amount of the lawsuit has not as yet been set, but I hope it is enough to get the City's attention.
--
Two other law-abiding gun owners, one black and one white, were each harassed TWICE by the Norfolk Police recently. Both were simply open carrying.
The black gun owner, an articulate, polite, 23 year-old who has helped at VCDL tables at various gun shows in the Tidewater area, had guns drawn and pointed at him by the police on the first occasion.
On the second occasion, he was handcuffed, even after complying with police demands to keep both hands on a nearby wall.
Both times the gun owner was released at the scene. But not after being unnecessarily humiliated and manhandled.
On the second occasion, the police officers told him that if they saw him open carrying again, they would handcuff him, run his gun for stolen, and then release him again!!!
Forget looking for real criminals, just harass the good guys, Norfolk. Unbelievable.
The white gun owner (Norfolk seems to be an equal opportunity harasser) was also detained and then released.
--
VCDL has been sitting quietly on this until Chet's charges were dropped. But these events cannot go unchallenged.
In addition to the lawsuit, VCDL will be attending a future Norfolk City Council meeting to denounce the oppressive harassment of Virginia's gun owners and demand an end to it.
The City of Norfolk and their police agents have a pattern of abusing the law and law abiding gun owners. If you or I violate the law, we risk fines and/or jail time. Why should local government officials be immune from punishment for passing and enforcing an ordinance in violation of state law? How long will the General Assembly let these rogue officials get away with this abuse of the law?
WE NEED A **HUGE** TURNOUT TO MAKE SURE CITY COUNCIL GETS THE MESSAGE LOUD AND CLEAR
I will advise when we have picked a date.
Tidewater - time to step up to the plate again.
Familiarize yourself with Virginia law and then say that. DUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH!
For the 20th time in this thread let me repeat: in Virginia it is illegal to carry concealed at an event or an establishment that sells or serves alcoholic beverages, as did this one. Being able to carry concealed would have prevented this, we agree on that.
Let's see if I understand what you are saying. The number of instances where a weapon is needed is ZERO. But for some reason the police, who I am assuming are armed, are EVERYWHERE. Do they just have nothing better to do? Are the taxpayers so frivilous in this jurisdiction that they spend money supplying officers for no reason?
Your statement might have a little more validity if these numerous officers were UNARMED. But they aren't, are they? Why is that?
That’s gonna leave a mark. Very good.
You do know that the tanker has the right of way, right?
I am in full agreement that this man did nothing illegal and that the Norfolk police were completely out of line. I was just thinking that this whole thing would not have occurred had his weapon been hidden under a vest. Thinking about it now, this would be difficult with hot summer weather.
Just to let you know, I grew up in the Shenandoah Valley and took NRA Hunter Safety Courses as a youngster.
My GA permit allows either concealed or open carry with the provision that the weapon must be carried in a holster of some type whether concealed or visible. The state pre-emption law nullifies any local gun law or ordinance that conflicts with state law. I don't think it would be advisable to carry openly while strolling down Peachtree Street in Atlanta on a busy afternoon, but I could legally do so if I wanted to and was willing to accept the harassment that I would probably get from Atlanta cops.
I don't know the terms of a VA carry permit, but judging by statements made in the article I assume it allows legal open carry anywhere in the state. The man who was harassed in this instance apparently broke no law since he was not charged with any crime. In that case he was simply a victim of police harassment because he committed a legal act which the cops didn't like. Such Nazi-like harassment of an innocent citizen by LE should be a crime in itself whether or not it actually is in VA.
What disturbs me about the attitude of so many posters on this thread is their sheeplike willingness to surrender a right that is protected by VA law just because exercising that right offends other people in a public venue and irritates the local police. By that standard no one would be able to carry out any legal activity which annoys or frightens other people. That could include driving a car down a neighborhood street or walking on a public sidewalk in front of another person's home. Where do we draw the line and say that enough infringement on our God-given and constitutionally protected rights is enough?
Quote from ‘Chapman’s Piloting and Seamanship and Small Boat Handling’ page 75..
In general, a sailing vessel has the right-of-way over a vessel propelled by machinery or by sail and machinery concurrently. The power vessel must keep out of the way of the sailing vessel. There are however, some exceptions and they should be thoroughly understood.
Should a sailing vessel overtake a power vessel-not likely, but possible-the overtaking situation rule prevails and the sailing vessel is the burdened one regardless of means of propulsion.
Likewise, a sailing vessel is not the privileged vessel in an encounter with certain vessels engaged in fishing.
The normal privileged status of a sailing vessel does not give her the right in a narrow channel to hamper the latter vessel if such can navigate safely only within the limits of the channel…….
Paraphrasing further..
The privileged vessel must take necessary action to avoid a collision.....
.........................
So, while technically the sailing vessel has the right-of way, the privileged vessel must take whatever action to avoid a collision.
That holds for any right-of-way dispute. You see it in the America’s Cup often.
..................
After I wrote this it was pointed out that since the festival served alcohol concealed carry was not an option. That sheds a different light on his actions.
NC carry laws wouldn’t allow me to even if I wanted.
Maybe the person who wrote the post was trying to be as specific as possible.
Did you read the post? The *police* were having difficulty removing the weapon. I suspect any thug would have an even more difficult time with it.
You don’t understand what Teacher317 was saying? Police have pistols visible on their belts, something you’re complaining about. The logical conclusion of your line of thinking is that, since having a weapon visible on your body at such an event is wrong, then the police should either stay home or leave their weapons in their vehicles.
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
before you go out sailing in Chesapeake Bay, crossing the bow of a tanker, thinking you have the right-of-way because you are under sail.
True enough, but there seems to have been a brief window of opportunity to Jujutsu his way into the upper hand when the deputy asked if he was a member of a police force.
If you are seek to be a pathfinder in these situations you must be as prepared to deal with the official side of the universe as you are to deal with the dark side.
It is a tough job and he volunteered.
Hard to make a call from a distance, but the outcome speaks for itself. Things did not go as well as they should have.
Best regards,
I would have preferred he be much better prepared for what he must have known would be an inevitable encounter.
People go to the range to target practice, why not go to Toastmasters to practice nuanced verbal Jujutsu?
The police certainly rehearse their traffic stop encounters. Where do you think they learn those innocuous questions about voluntary search of your vehicle? Why do you think the questions are so similar across so many different jurisdictions?
We the People need to get smart about this stuff.
Best regards,
MOLON LABE
Your first three words...explain it.
Where does the article state the guy got "his ass whipped"...?
I must have missed that.
In my opinion, the odds of a police man having both hands occupied and in a position to have his weapon taken, are much less, than a civilian walking around a festival.”
I would be interested in your reasoning for that statement.
Why did he not say “Yes Sir” and left when given that option?”
Because it was wrong.
Because it was illegal.
Because if you don’t stand up for your rights, you will end up losing them.
Because if he did, he would end up having to do it again and again or stop carrying.
Because letting them do it only makes it worse for the next person they harass.
Because if it continues, someone is going to get killed.
I don't understand how someone can call themselves a conservative, yet be so confused about the principle of LIMITED GOVERNMENT. How can anyone even pay lip service to being a conservative, yet defend this overreaching on the part of LEOs?
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