Based on what? And what standard are you going by? Maybe your definition of your "exemplary life" would be somebody else's defintion of evil. Where do you go to find out if your "exemplary life" is really exemplary?
it is your putative “God” - who has stood by and watched billions of innocent human beings die and not lifted a finger (does God have fingers?) to stop it.
No, my "putative God" created a world that had no sin and no evil in it and it was man who chose to bring sin into the world and make the world the way it is. You cannot give God qualities based on your ignorance of Who He really is and then condemn Him because He, in your mind, has failed the standard. Man brought sin into this world, and as a result this world is fallen, and sick, and cursed and there are horrible consequences for sin, man's sin. God, the real God, my God, does not step in and rescue man from the consequences of sin. This world will be the way it is until Christ comes back and yes that will mean people will die in this world but before you get enraged at God, always remember it was man who made this world the way it is and man continues to this day to rebel and sin against God and shake his fist in the face of God and reject Him. So before you blame God for anything, get your facts straight. God has given man a way of rescue, not out of this world, which will eventually end, but out of eternal death.
It was only through His mercy and love that He did give man an escape from eternal punishment. He didn't have do to anything to help us after what we do to Him, every single day.
If I did stand before him, I would demand first an accounting from HIM for my dead family, then an accounting for all the other innocents that have had to suffer and die throughout the ages.
First of all, there are no "innocents":
Romans 3:23:
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Man is born into this world guilty, in the eyes of God. And everyone who has ever lived in this world, or who will ever live in this world, is subject to the effects of man's sin on this world. And I'm very sorry that people in your family died. People in my family have died, and alot of people in alot of families have died. But, again, it was the sin of mankind that brought death into the world. God did not create this world the way it is today.
And, by the way, when you do stand before Him, you won't be uttering a sound.
Just because you declaim yourself to be a deity, as Jesus did, does not make it so.
Post my statement declaring myself to be deity. Thanks.
After my family died - my atheism was shaken and I begged for God’s help and guidance. Know what I got? Nothing. Things became far worse, not better.
But you had rejected Him all your life before your tragedy. There had never been a time in your life when you went to God, and confessed your sin, and asked for forgiveness, and asked Jesus Christ into your life. If God did not help you, it was because you never wanted anything to do with Him! We are all born into this world with a debt of sin that has to be dealt with before God can act in our lives, and work in our lives. God is not some Santa Claus that hands out blessings upon request. God is a Person Who created us to have a personal relationship with us, but sin separates us from God. God has given may a way to be cleansed of his sin, and to have a relationship with Him, but until our sin debt is wiped away through our trust in God's Son and our accepting of Him as Savior, God cannot be a part of our lives.
And you need to read the account of Job again. Job was a man who loved God and trusted Him and who God allowed to be tested by Satan, and never one time did Job ever curse God for what he went through. And after Job went through the testing, which, by the way, he did not have any idea how long it would last, God blessed Job's faithfulness and obedience.
I read your response to me, and I see a bitter, enraged individual who, while you try to tell me I have blinders on, have never given God a chance an so therefore cannot possibly know what it is like to be in a state of forgiveness and in a state of a personal relationship with God. You are trapped in pain and bitterness and anger against God- the same God Who would help you if you would let Him. Your heart is closed to God and therefore God can do nothing for you. He does not force Himself on anyone; if somebody does not think He exists, and refuses to come to Him for forgiveness and salvation, He will leave that person alone.
God gave His Son for you. It's up to you to accept that offer of salvation and eternal life or reject it. But don't get mad at God for your own choices.
I have led an exemplary life Based on what? And what standard are you going by? (BASED ON THE VERY BEST OF YOUR CHRISTIAN STANDARDS)
Maybe your definition of your “exemplary life” would be somebody else’s defintion of evil. (NO. SEE PREVIOUS COMMENT.)Where do you go to find out if your “exemplary life” is really exemplary? (MY OWN EXTREMELY KEEN CONSCIENCE, THE OPINION OF OTHERS AND YOUR OWN BIBLE - BUT NOT BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT WAS DIVINELY-INSPIRED IN ANY WAY. I’M NOT STUPID ENOUGH TO BELIEVE ANYTHING SO LUDICROUS. DO YOU ASSUME THAT THERE WEREN’T ANY DECENT PEOPLE IN ANTIQUITY WHO COULD WRITE SUCH COMMON-SENSE THINGS?)
it is your putative “God” - who has stood by and watched billions of innocent human beings die and not lifted a finger (does God have fingers?) to stop it.
No, my “putative God” created a world that had no sin and no evil in it and it was man who chose to bring sin into the world and make the world the way it is. (YOUR PUTATIVE GOD IS PRETTY INCOMPETENT, THEN.)You cannot give God qualities based on your ignorance of Who He really is and then condemn Him because He, in your mind, has failed the standard. (WRONG – ACCORDING TO YOU HE DESIGNED MY MIND - I AM USING THE CRITICAL THINKING AND ANALYTICAL SKILLS HE SUPPOSEDLY GAVE ME TO ANALYZE THE WORLD WE LIVE IN BY LOGICAL MEANS) Man brought sin into this world, (NO, GOD DID BY CREATING A FLAWED CREATION - SO HE MUST’VE DELIBERATELY WANTED TO CREATE SIN) and as a result this world is fallen, and sick, and cursed and there are horrible consequences for sin, man’s sin. (NO, IT’S THE RESULT OF YOUR OMNIBENEVOLENT GOD’S MISTAKE IN CREATING A FLAWED CREATION) God, the real God, my God, does not step in and rescue man from the consequences of sin. (OR FROM THE DEPREDATIONS OF HIS OTHER FLAWED CREATIONS WHEN THEY DECIDE TO COMMIT VIOLENCE UPON THE INNOCENT. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO ME IF I RAISED VICIOUS PIT BULLS, THEN DELIBERATELY RELEASED THEM INTO THE COMMUNITY ON A REGULAR BASIS TO ATTACK EVERYBODY. WOULD THIS BE A CRIME? ) This world will be the way it is until Christ comes back and yes that will mean people will die in this world but before you get enraged at God, always remember it was man who made this world the way it is and man continues to this day to rebel and sin against God and shake his fist in the face of God and reject Him. (CAN’T BLAME MAN, AS MAN IS A DELIBERATELY-FLAWED CREATION) So before you blame God for anything, get your facts straight. (MY FACTS ARE AS STRAIGHT AS LASER BEAM IN A GRAVITY-FREE ENIRONMENT. YOUR “FACTS” ARE BASED ON IGNORANT, PRIMITIVE SUPERSTITIOUS DOGMA) God has given man a way of rescue, not out of this world, which will eventually end, but out of eternal death. (YAH, IT’S CALLED SCIENCE. NANOTECHNOLOGY WILL SOMEDAY GIVE US NOT ONLY ETERNAL YOUTH BUT THE ABILITY TO BE REBUILT EVEN IF WE ARE BLOWN TO BITS. I ONLY WISH WE ALREADY HAD THAT TECHNOLOGY)
It was only through His mercy and love that He did give man an escape from eternal punishment. (THE SAME MERCY AND LOVE THAT CREATED EVIL? AND HELL?) He didn’t have do to anything to help us after what we do to Him, every single day. (AND HE DOESN’T, DEMONSTRABLY. COULD IT BE BECAUSE HE DOESN’T EXIST?)
If I did stand before him, I would demand first an accounting from HIM for my dead family, then an accounting for all the other innocents that have had to suffer and die throughout the ages.
First of all, there are no “innocents”:
Romans 3:23:
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
(INCLUDING BABIES THAT ARE STRANGLED BY THEIR UMBILICAL CORDS AT BIRTH? HOW IS THIS GOD’S MERCY? WOULD YOU REALLY SHUT WHATEVER LIMITED ABILITY TO REASON YOU POSSESS OFF AND WORSHIP SUCH AN EVIL GOD? NOT FOR ME, THANKS!)
Man is born into this world guilty, in the eyes of God. (I THOUGHT THAT THE SINS OF THE FATHER WERE NOT VISITED UPON THE CHILDREN? DEPENDS ON WHICH VERSION OF THE BIBLE YOU READ, AND WHICH PART YOU DECIDE TO BELIEVE, I GUESS http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1996/6/6sins96.html ). And everyone who has ever lived in this world, or who will ever live in this world, is subject to the effects of man’s sin on this world. And I’m very sorry that people in your family died. (REALLY? WHY? SINCE YOUR GOD DOES NOT SEE FIT TO TOUCH ME WITH HIS GRACE, WHY WOULD ANOTHER MERE HUMAN BEING HAVE COMPASSION FOR ME? AREN’T YOU AFRAID GOD WILL BE DISPLEASED WITH YOU FOR OFFERING COMFORT TO A BLASPHEMER? WHY BOTHER WITH ME IF GOD DOESN’T EVEN WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME BECAUSE I AM SO WORTHLESS AND EVIL?) People in my family have died, and a lot of people in alot of families have died. But, again, it was the sin of mankind that brought death into the world. God did not create this world the way it is today.(YES, HE DID. BEING OMNISCIENT, HE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE WORLD FOR ALL ITS FUTURE HISTORY. HE WENT RIGHT AHEAD AND CREATED IT ANYWAY WITH MALICE AFORETHOUGHT THAT IT WOULD FAIL. HOW MERCIFUL IS THIS? SAME APPLIES TO LUCIFER; GOD CREATED SATAN ALSO, WITH THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT HE WOULD REBEL, AND ALL THE FUTURE PROBLEMS THAT THIS WOULD CAUSE IN HEAVEN AND EARTH, AND GOD JUST LET IT HAPPEN ANYWAY. DOESN’T SAY A LOT FOR HIM, DOES IT? ALSO, I’M GLAD YOU HAVE SUCH A PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF GOD’S CONSCIENCE. DOES HE TALK TO YOU DIRECTLY OR DO YOU HAVE VISIONS?)
And, by the way, when you do stand before Him, you won’t be uttering a sound. (I SEE, IT’S A KANGAROO COURT. HOW INFINITELY JUST!)
Just because you declaim yourself to be a deity, as Jesus did, does not make it so.
Post my statement declaring myself to be deity. Thanks.
(IWAS SPEAKING OF JESUS’S CLAIM “I AM THE WAY” - NOT YOU, YOU INTELLECTUALLY-LIMITED CREATURE. I WAS ALSO SPEAKING OF CHARLES MANSON, JIM JONES, AND ALL THE OTHER CRACKPOTS WHO HAVE MADE THE SAME STATEMENT THROUGHOUT HISTORY, AND LED PEOPLE INTO HORRIBLE FATES, INCLUDING MURDER, SUICIDE AND GENOCIDE. YOUR MISTAKE IN NOT RECOGNIZING THIS REVEALS THAT YOU ARE USED TO JUST TAKING THE LITERAL MEANING OF THE WORDS YOU READ, AND NOT LOOK FOR OTHER POSSIBLE MEANINGS. HOW INTELLECTUALLY LIMITED OF YOU)
After my family died - my atheism was shaken and I begged for God’s help and guidance. Know what I got? Nothing. Things became far worse, not better.
But you had rejected Him all your life before your tragedy. (YOU NEED TO FIND ANY EXCUSE HERE BECAUSE MY TRUE STATEMENT REVEALS THAT WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG IS TRUE. WHAT BETTER TIME FOR GOD TO SHOW ME HIS MERCY THAN AT SUCH A HORRIBLE MOMENT. IF ONLY THAT WAS THE WORST IN MY LIFE - IT BECAME FAR WORSE AFTER THAT – THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN, I MIGHT ADD!) there had never been a time in your life when you went to God, and confessed your sin, and asked for forgiveness, and asked Jesus Christ into your life. (OH YES THERE WAS!! I WAS RAISED A CATHOLIC. ALSO - YOU ARE MAKING EXCUSES BECAUSE YOU “KNOW” THAT YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED - AND IF YOU ARE SAVED IT MUST WORK FOR EVERYBODY. IF IT DOESN’T WORK FOR EVERYBODY, THEN IT MUST BE FALSE. THIS IS WHY YOU SO DESPERATELY ARE TRYING TO IMAGINE THAT I AM NOT AN EXEMPLARY PERSON (I AM) BECAUSE IF HE DOESN’T HELP ME, THEN 2 POSSIBILITIES PRESENT THEMSELVES 1) HE DOESN’T EXIST, OR CARE ABOUT US IF HE DOES, 2) I AM NOT WORTHY OF SAVING.) If God did not help you, it was because you never wanted anything to do with Him! We are all born into this world with a debt of sin that has to be dealt with before God can act in our lives, and work in our lives. (NONSENSE! THIS IS JUST MORE BEHAVIOR-MODIFICATION FEARMONGERING THAT THE EARLY CHURCH(ES) FOISTED UPON THE IGNORANT TO FRIGHTEN THEM INTO BELIEVING IN ORDER TO GIVE THEM SWAY OVER THE POPULUS AND THE ABILITY TO COLLECT TITHES TO INCREASE THE POWER OF THE CHURCH) God is not some Santa Claus that hands out blessings upon request. God is a Person (A PERSON? I THOUGHT HE WAS *GOD*??) Who created us to have a personal relationship with us, but sin separates us from God. God has given may a way to be cleansed of his sin, and to have a relationship with Him, but until our sin debt is wiped away through our trust in God’s Son and our accepting of Him as Savior, God cannot be a part of our lives. (PRIMITIVE, IGNORANT, SUPERSTITIOUS RHETORIC)
And you need to read the account of Job again. Job was a man who loved God and trusted Him and who God allowed to be tested by Satan, and never one time did Job ever curse God for what he went through. And after Job went through the testing, which, by the way, he did not have any idea how long it would last, God blessed Job’s faithfulness and obedience. (AND WHY WOULD AN INFINITELY-MERCIFUL GOD ALLOW ONE OF HIS MOST PIOUS DEVOTEES TO SUFFER SO, WHEN IN HIS OMNIPOTENCE HE KNEW THAT JOB WOULD PASS THE TEST ANYWAY? ISN’T THIS NOTHING SHORT OF SADISTIC?)
I read your response to me, and I see a bitter, enraged individual who, while you try to tell me I have blinders on, have never given God a chance (WHAT DID YOU MISS BEFORE WHEN I STATED THAT AFTER MY FAMILY DIED MY ATHEISM WAS IN DOUBT AND I BEGGED FOR HELP? NONE CAME. INSTEAD, THINGS BECAME MUCH, MUCH WORSE, THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN. YOU WROTE THIS ABOVE, YOURSELF, DID YOU FORGET? WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN A BETTER TIME FOR GOD TO LET HIMSELF BE KNOWN TO ME?) an so therefore cannot possibly know what it is like to be in a state of forgiveness and in a state of a personal relationship with God. (YOU CAN’T HAVE A PERSONAL REALTIONSHIP WITH SOMETHING THAT DOESN’T EXIST) You are trapped in pain and bitterness and anger against God- the same God Who would help you if you would let Him. (I ASKED, HE GAVE NO ANSWER BUT FURTHER TRAGEDY AND UNTOLD SUFFERING ON MY PART. I MEAN, ASSUMING HE EXISTS, WHICH HE DOESN’T)Your heart is closed to God and therefore God can do nothing for you. (BEING OMNIPOTENT, WHY DOESN’T HE OPEN IT?) He does not force Himself on anyone; (OH I SEE – WHERE WAS HE WHEN I BEGGED FOR HELP?)if somebody does not think He exists, and refuses to come to Him for forgiveness and salvation, He will leave that person alone. (I DID, WITH THE GREATEST HUMILITY AND SINCERITY OF MY LIFE, ASK. NOTHING HAPPENED. UNLESS YOU WANT TO COUNT THE FLOODGATES OF HELL POURING DOWN UPON ME AFTERWARDS. I SEE THIS AS MORE OF HAPPENING TO BE A VERY STATISTICALLY-UNLUCKY PERSON MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. I AM NOT BITTER OR ANGRY ABOUT GOD’S NON-EXISTENCE. I’M MERELY TRYING TO POINT OUT TO A BUNCH OF DELUDED. HIGHLY-JUDGMENTAL FOOLS THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE FOR THEIR BELIEFS. I CAN SEE NOW THAT YOUR DELUSIONS ARE SO INGRAINED THAT I HAVE BEEN WASTING MY BREATH, AS NONE OF YOU ARE CAPABLE OF CRITICAL THOUGHT.)
God gave His Son for you. It’s up to you to accept that offer of salvation and eternal life or reject it. But don’t get mad at God for your own choices. (IT WASN’T MY CHOICE FOR MY FATHER, A TOTALLY COMMITED CHRISTIAN, AND WWII VETERAN OF 3.5 YEARS OF NIGHTMARISH JUNGLE WARFARE IN THE PACIFIC, AND, LATER, VALEDICTORIAN OF HIS CLASS IN MEDICAL SCHOOL, TO DIE HORRIFICALLY OF CANCER WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER. IT WASN’T MY CHOICE FOR MY MOTHER TO BE PSYCHOTIC AND THROW ME, (AN HONOR STUDENT WHO DIDN’T DRINK, SMOKE OR DO DRUGS OR ANYTHING ELSE WRONG) OUT IN THE STREET, AFTER ALMOST 2 DECADES OF HORRIFIC EMOTIONAL AND PHYSICAL ABUSE AT HER HANDS. IT WASN’T MY CHOICE THAT SHE SOLD THE HOUSE I GREW UP IN FOR 1/3 OF ITS APPRAISED VALUE, AND TO SEND THE REST OF THE MONEY TO MY COKE-ADDICT OLDER BROTHER TO PUT UP HIS NOSE. IT WASN’T MY CHOICE THAT A DRUNK DRIVER RAN A STOP SIGN AND SPLATTERED ME ALL OVER THE ROAD ON MY MOTORCYCLE 3 MONTHS AFTER MY FATHER DIED. IT WASN’T MY CHOICE THAT I WOKE UP 2 WEEKS LATER IN THE HOSPITAL WITH A SHATTERED RIGHT LEG, AND NO INSURANCE BECAUSE THE MOMSTER CANCELED IT BEFORE MY FATHER WAS COLD. IT WASN’T MY CHOICE TO HAVE TO REPAY $23,000.00 IN MEDICAL BILLS (THE COST OF 3 BRAND-NEW CARS AT THE TIME). IT WASN’T MY CHOICE TO HAVE TO LIVE AT MY GIRLFRIENDS HOUSE WHILE I RECUPERATED FOR A YEAR AS MY MOTHER WOULDN’T ALLOW ME, AN INVALID, TO STAY AT HOME. IF I’D STAYED THERE, I GUESS IT WOULD’VE COST HER $20 A WEEK FOR FOOD, OR MAYBE SOMEHOW MAKE HER RESPONSIBLE FOR MY MEDICAL BILLS. WHEN I ASKED HER WHY SHE CANCELED MY HEALTH INSURANCE, AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE MEDICAL BILLS, SHE SAID SHE’D GIVE ME A RIDE TO THE WELFARE OFFICE. IT *WAS* MY CHOICE NOT TO DO THAT; I’D RATHER STARVE THAN TAKE CHARITY FROM THE STATE. AFTER I’D RECOVERED, I LIVED IN A TENT IN THE STATE FOREST FOR SEVERAL YEARS, THROUGH BITTER NEW ENGLAND WINTERS AND BLIZZARDS, EATING RABBITS, GROUSE AND THE OCCASIONAL SQUIRREL, (AND CANNED BEANS , TURKEY AND YAMS WERE ALWAYS A TREAT FOR THANKSGIVING OR CHRISTMAS!) STAYING ONE STEP AHEAD OF THE RANGERS, AND TAKING OUT STUDENT LOANS SO THAT I COULD AFFORD TO GO TO A CHEAP STATE COLLEGE. IT *WAS* MY CHOICE TO WORK 2 JOBS AND GO TO COLLEGE FULL-TIME. I WAS A BRINKS GUARD AND I WAS HIRED TO WORK IN THE COLLEGE COMPUTER LABORATORY, ANSWERING USER QUESTIONS AND TEACHING INTRODUCTORY CLASSES ON THE CYBER MAINFRAME. AT NO POINT DID I DROWN MY SORROWS IN ALCOHOL OR DRUGS, NOR STEAL, NO MATTER HOW HUNGRY I BECAME. THE PRECEDING IS ONLY A TINY PORTION OF THE UNPLEASANTRIES I HAVE FACED IN LIFE, NONE BEING MY CHOICE. IF ANYONE HAS A RIGHT TO BE MAD, IT’S ME. BUT I’M NOT. I REALIZE THAT THERE IS NO GOD, AND THEREFORE, NOBODY “HAS IT IN FOR ME”. IT WAS ALL JUST A MATTER OF STATISTICAL BAD LUCK, THAT’S ALL. BUT WHAT DOES ANGER ME, ARE PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELVES WHO IGNORE ALL THE EVIDENCE, NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, BUT COMMON-SENSE, WITH YOUR SUPERIOR KNOW-IT-ALL ATTITUDES AND SMUG JUDGMENTALISM OF OTHERS WHO DO NOT SHARE YOUR BELIEFS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO INTELLIGENT TO BE TAKEN IN BY PRIMITIVE SUPERSTITION. YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK WITH YOUR PIOUS PREACHING OF LIES BASED ON THE WRITINGS OF A BUNCH OF IGNORANT SAVAGES. I DID NOT BRING ANY OF THE AFOREMENTIONED UNPLEASANTRIES UPON MYSELF – THIS WAS DONE BY FORCES EXTERNAL TO ME. NEED I POINT OUT AGAIN THAT NOT ONE OF YOU HAS REFUTED ANY OF THE BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS THAT I HAVE POSTED. ALL YOU DO IS DENY THAT IT IS A CONTRADICTION (WITHOUT PRESENTING ANY EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY), STATE THAT THE REASON IT IS NOT CONTRADICTORY IS SO OBVIOUS THAT IT NEED NOT BE EXPLAINED (YAH, RIGHT), OR IGNORE IT, OR QUOTE SCRIPTURE AT ME AS IF THAT IS ANY PROOF OF ANYTHING. ENJOY YOUR COLLECTIVE DELUSION. I CHOOSE TO LIVE MY LIFE IN REALITY, NOT IN SOME FOOLISH FAIRY TALE.