Posted on 07/13/2007 5:15:02 AM PDT by Kaslin
Excuse? There is no need for any type of "excuse". A tremendous amount was accomplished in Ops around Tora Bora. A tremendous amount. The enemy was killed and forced to retreat within two weeks....via an area they had thought was their safe-haven and where they would put us in a meat-grinder (as they had the former USSR). They believed they would be safe there and hold that ground until we were forced to retreat. The exact opposite happened (and did so within 14 days no less).
You don't have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to HVTs and that Op. I'll leave it at that.
Full stop. I'm done.
Was I addressing you? No...I addressing a Marine that's been in both theaters has come home wounded....with a brother that happens to be a Navy Seal. Both believe in what Bush is doing...and so do I. Along with 3 family members who've all been in both theaters of action. 1 has been deployed 5 times, 1 deployed 3 times another presently in the 'Stan Theater deployed 2 times. They're fighting for your freedom and your children, grand children and great grand children...They love President Bush and knows without a doubt he's right in what he's doing. And detest types like you.
“In any event, this is a conservative forum, not a republican one.”
. . . ya think?! Actually, this forum has become an echo chamber for factless, feckless whiners . . . I’ll stick with debating the Stalinist Chomskyites at my university; they’re more rational.
Look, Bush's problems have been detailed here for years. The vast majority of us had problems with his signing the McCain-Feingold Act into law and we had problems with No Child Left Behind and of course Medicare Plan D which was basically just a vote buying scheme.
We overlooked most of those because no one is perfect and the war in Afghanistan was too important. Unfortunately, the list of problems started to become larger and larger and occur more frequently. They Harriet Miers situation was a major tipping point for many - Bush didn't back down because it was the right thing to do, he did it because it became obvious that she couldn't be confirmed due to conservative pressure.
The man has some serious problems and unless a person really only cares about abortion, cloning, stem cell research or gay marriage, he has been a big disappointment.
It is quite funny that in every post you go on and on about everyone else being emotional, yet your posts are nothing but hysteria from following a cult of personality.
When you see them again PLEASE pass along a mighty THANK YOU from this old Viet Nam vet.
They are doing GREAT work and we owe them more than we can ever possibly repay. Thanks!
I’ll pass it on. I am honored with phone calls from ‘Stan...the reports on how while it’s actually going is even more than we’d hoped for. Thanks. ;o)
Good post. I disagree with Bush wholeheartedly on a few issues — the major one of which is immigration. But I thank God everyday that he was our president on 9-11 and not the alternative. I see a big difference in abandoning him, as several of the republicans have done, and disagreeing with him.
BTTT.
Bush = Bad Joke.
I could go into a five page rant like I usually do, but I’ll make it short and sweet:
The venom inflicted upon this President is a grotesque and naked display of the most unChristian, unAmerican, unconservative behavior it has been my displeasure to see in recent American history. And I have a sneaking feeling I’ll see it again. At any rate, a lot of the most egregious bashers claim the mantle of Pres. Reagan. It is to laugh. Pres. Reagan would NEVER say such mean and hateful. Many claim to be his soldiers, but he’d weep to see a man who’s only trying to do what’s best for his country treated thusly.
Ditto. He is not a conservative and seems to show contempt for those who are.
I can understand the hate coming from the left. That is to be expected. But the hatred from our side is to much
He let Uncle Ted write the education bill, Signed Mcain-Feingold CFR, Promised to sign another assault weapons ban if put on his desk, Tried to Sneak Harriet Myers into the courts, and tried to railroad his amnesty bill past us by siding with the dims against the House conservatives,the will of the American people and his own party. Then he refused to defend himself and his party for the last 6 years. No wonder we lost so bad the last election.
Yes he seems to be right on some issues (war on terror) but Ronald Reagan he is not!
Agreed. I always thought we were the best and the brightest, that we’d never do anything this bad.
The wool’s been pulled from my eyes. I’ve become disillusioned with a lot of people ostensibly on our side.
So much for short and sweet...
“He let Uncle Ted write the education bill”
I loathe the Toad as much as the next guy but sometimes you have to work with unsavory characters to achieve greater ends. Very few things he does is not a net negative, yet it proved to be a good thing nonetheless. My dad, a US citizen living elsewhere, was getting taxed by the government for services he did not use. Only when he wrote a letter to Kennedy did the taxman backed off and stopped taxing him. Stopped clock and all that.
In regards to NCLB, of course we’d all prefer government to get out of education all together but that’s not going to happen for a long time. Even Pres. Reagan didn’t kill the Dept. of Education. Since NCLB was enacted scores have been going up, teachers are being held accountable, and students are performing better. By taking power away from the NEA and giving kids the ability to think for themselves, NCLB has proven to be a good start. Not the end all and be all, and certainly not a catastrophe because the Toad has his druthers in it.
“Signed Mcain-Feingold CFR”
In the face of a veto-proof majority while asking the SCOTUS to do their job. Which they didn’t. The vetoing of a bill that will pass in the majority wouldn’t be much of an accomplishment.
“Promised to sign another assault weapons ban if put on his desk”
And signed bills allowing pilots to be armed, immunity for gun makers from frivolous lawsuits, have AG Ashcroft notify SCOTUS that the 2nd Amendment supports individual firearms rights, kept America out of the UN’s International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty, signed another bill mandating the destruction of a gun buyers’ background check information within 24 hours of the completion of the check, and repealed gun controls against active, retired, and off-duty LEOs.
The only way the AWB would get re-signed is if the GOP controlled Congress sends it back to him, aka a veto-proof majority.
“Tried to Sneak Harriet Myers into the courts”
Because the person who helped the President vetted Alito, Roberts, Janice Rogers Brown, and all of his other Court nominees is clearly unqualified for the job.
And a hell of a way to sneak someone. Right into the open arms of the Senate, where all Justices are vetted. To imply that there was any machination in her appointment process is asinine. He sent Miers to the Senate to be looked at, like all his other nominees. He didn’t sneak anything.
Well, there may be some machinations on the part of all the hysterical people who casted all sorts of ugly aspersions on Miers without allowing her to speak for herself on the Senate. I didn’t know that being single or old is a disqualification from the SCOTUS. But what do I know.
“and tried to railroad his amnesty bill past us by siding with the dims against the House conservatives, the will of the American people and his own party”
Please. There are over 60 million people who voted for the President in the last election and I’d be hard press to believe that every single one of them is a Republican/Conservative. Even amongst GOPpies and conservatives there is a difference of opinion on this issue and I can guarantee that most of them don’t see this issue the same way you do. I bet a lot of people even think the bill is a good idea. In any political arrangement there will be a wide selection of different types of people and yes, “RINOs” are part of that arrangement. There is a hell of a lot more RINOs in this country (who aren’t even in the halls of power but average people like you and me) than you think. We may be more conservative than the President but he’s more conservative than the majority of the American people. There’s a very good reason why we are not talking about President Alan Keyes and why we have to contend with people like Snowe and others. The vaunted people brought these “RINOs” into power because they are “RINOs.”
The immigration crew is not the majority nor has it ever been the majority. The proof is in the pudding because every time America had a real chance to curtail illegal immigration (Operation Wetback, 86 Amnesty, 96 immigration reform, sanctuary city laws) either the situation is worsened or it remained in status quo. Coupling this with the consistent failure of nativist and anti-immigrant movements in the past, it is clear that the majority of Americans are either lackadaisical or actually supportive on this issue. There is no outcry for reform. The only reason this bill got tabled is because the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And boy was it squeaky. The average American couldn’t care less about this issue. It’s like the war protests. It looks large but only because most people don’t care enough to voice out strong support or condemnation.
For the majority of the people, illegal immigration is NOT their top concern. Forget opinion polls, give them a hypothetical of two candidates one strong on illegal immigration while weak on the war on terror and vice versa. The strong on WoT guy will win in a landslide. To many Americans the defining issue of our time is still Bin Laden and his goons.
And I don’t care how many times people say it, IT’S NOT AMNESTY!
The bill said that illegals would have to pay fines, apply for visas, get in the back of the line behind legal applicants, and even apply from their home countries.
The clearest definition of amnesty in this debate is automatic citizenship. This is nowhere near automatic. It’s not even close to amnesty.
The intent is clear. He wants them to jump through all the hoops and wave all the right bells and whistles. That’s one hell of an “amnesty”.
Deportation and walls are overrated. People scale walls all the time and the famous walls of history have all been breached one way or another. Jericho, China , the castle fortifications of Europe, Berlin. You name it, someone found a way around it. Israel’s wall might be the only one to stood the tests of time but that would make it an exception, not the rule.
For determined illegals, nothing, nothing is going to keep those deported from coming back in again. As long as America is better than their country, has more opportunities, or heck even allow them to say “This government bites!” without disappearing into the next world, people are going to come here, legal or not. When the average Mexican illegal gets sent back from El Norte, the next thing he’s going to do when he gets up is, you guessed it, go to El Norte.
If the Berlin wall, with landmines, gun turrets, dogs, and razor wire couldn’t stop people from coming over, what hope could our border wall, (no matter how tall, reinforced, or high tech it is) could have against equally determined people?
Fences and deportations are no panacea, especially considering the fact that illegals don’t just come in through the South. That big region north of Maine isn’t just Little America ya know. If you think the South border is porous then the North is nearly non-existent. Plus, 50% of illegals are OTMs who got here via other passages. The second largest immigrant group is from Ireland! A fence would REALLY help that now, wouldn’t it?
Also, the arguments used against Pres. Bush can be used against Pres. Reagan too! People keep saying “Bush should know better after Reagan’s amnesty”. How about “Reagan should know better after Eisenhower’s Operation Wetback?”
Illegal immigration is such a big huge, important issue that it didn’t play any role in the 88, 92, 96, 00, and 04 elections. It was so important that none of the pundits and people are going into it in much depth and detail until 06 and 07. Yep. It’s just that freaking important.
Before anyone could accuse me of being a supporter of a bill, I couldn’t care less about the bill, except for how ugly the debate was. It could be good, it could be bad, I don’t care. Illegal immigration is the symptom of a disease (well, several) and while everyone’s going nuts over the symptoms, the true culprits are being ignored in the place of scapegoats. A complacent population, asinine labor restrictions/thug unions, poor quality of life in other nations, liberal hate America/whitey suck/reconquista rhetoric, our dependence on welfare, DEMon party corruption and vote fraud; all of these and more are the reasons for our illegal immigration problems. Unless we fix these problems, the borders could be as tight as Fort Knox, it’s not going to mean a thing. Illegals will still come in, there’ll still be fraud, crime, demand for illegal labor, etc.
“Then he refused to defend himself and his party for the last 6 years.”
Granted. But that’s his style since he was Governor. He was never one to toot his own horn. This has been made worse because because the Perjuring rapist usurper made a career out of turning the White House into a permanent, partisan war room with the toon taking up any and every issue. The toon went on the attack every opportunity 24/7 and ended up tarnishing the White House. Not to mention that even if he does so, he’d be lucky to get anything done with all the slime coming at him from both sides. And God knows the scumbag media will never report the truth.
Yes part of this is new tone but it is also meant to preserve the dignity of the office and to separate the Presidency from partisan politics and not to get embroiled in every little non-issue or spend his entire time in office rebutting liberal/Democrat lies. He has a country to run after all.
”No wonder we lost so bad the last election.”
No. The DEMons won narrowly. In any case, it’s not just the President. The GOP also handled themselves poorly regarding the corruption and sex scandal charges. Then again, even if they did defend themselves and attacked the DEMons for hypocrisy, the story of the night will be about some celebrity or origami or something, anything to take away from the Republican’s maneuvers.
“Yes he seems to be right on some issues (war on terror) but Ronald Reagan he is not!”
Never claimed he was. And that’s one of the best things about him. He never pretended to be anyone else but George Walker Bush.
Then again, even Reagan isn’t the Conservative god incarnate many of his idolaters claim to be. And frankly, he would have a few choice words to say about all those deifying him and all those trashing the President. Not the least of which would be “sob sisters” (used to criticize conservatives who decried his 1982 budget) or “vindictive” (some idiot who accused him of not being pro-life enough). I can imagine the vapors among the right if President Bush actually used those terms.
In fact, once upon a time, Pres. Reagan was a “traitor”! Conservatives accused him of virtually every “abandonment” and “betrayal” that they accuse Pres. Bush of. A number of Reagan’s appointments were based on their merit and not ideological standing. Naturally, all the conservatives were complaining that instead of appointing ideologues who’d pare down or abolish these institutions, the President was “squandering” precious opportunities to bring down government. When Reagan didn’t take a hardline stance on the Soviets, the usual suspects were accusing him of “caving” to the communists. They ragged on him because he wasn’t as strident on abortion as they would like. I bet a ton of people nearly had an aneurysm when he raised those taxes. It got so bad that conservatives were threatening to withhold support from him and even abandon him. But of course, it wasn’t they who abandoned Reagan. It was Reagan who abandoned them. He wasn’t a true conservative. He didn’t stood up for the unborn, lower taxes, smaller government, freedom against communism, etc ad nauseam
So judging by the way Pres. Reagan was treated, I’d say Pres. Bush is in good company.
And he very well deserves to be. Some of Pres. Bush’s Accomplishments:
1) Restored dignity and honor to the White House
2) Steadfast defender of life:
- reversed the toon’s move to strike Pres. Reagan’s anti-abortion Mexico Policy
- stopped foreign aid from funding abortions.
- upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals
- signed an E.O. reversing the toon’s policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act
- signing the partial birth abortion ban
- vetoing 2 attempts to cannibalize the unborn with ESCR
3) Prosecuted the War on Terror
- killed and captured 1000s of terrorists world wide
- destroyed two terrorist sanctuaries
- liberated 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan
- attempting to undermine extremism by providing an example of a free and prosperous society
- forced Libya to surrender it’s WMD programs
- joining forces with the Ethiopian forces in eliminating terrorist cells in Ethiopia
- constantly defending Israel in the UN, the Lebanon war, and pressuring the Arab/Islamic nations to accept Israel’s existence
- foiled numerous plots against America and prosecuting those responsible
4) Attempting to stave of encroaching liberalism
- appointing originalist justices throughout the court system
- pushing for Social Security reform despite the lack of enthusiasm from the GOP controlled Congress
- lowered taxes
- halted various envirowhacko initiatives hindering the nation’s economy and security including draconian CO2 mandates that interfered with CA’s ability to produce electricity, easing controls on agricultural genetic modification, increased oil drilling, and stopped envirolunatics’ challenge against the construction of border fortifications
- tort reforms
5) Championed American sovereignty and enhanced the protection of the Homeland:
- bringing the crew of the downed Spy plane back to the US safe and sound without kowtowing to China or increasing regional tension further
- increased military spending and recruitment and restored respect, morale, and pride to the US Armed Forces
- killed the Kyoto treaty, the ICC, and other stupid infringements dreamed up by the UN
- established the National Missile Defense system
6) Defended the cause of freedom and justice throughout the world
- established the Millenium Change Corporation system which links foreign aid to accountability and democratic and economic reforms and helps enhance free trade between nations
- deposed Liberian dictator (and possible Al Qaeda ally) Charles Taylor without loss of life
- helped bring about peace in Southern Sudan, establishing sanctions on Sudanese war criminals, and constantly pressured the international community to act regarding Darfur
- improved relations with Eastern European nations
- brokered peace agreements between India and Pakistan while improving relations with both nations
7) Restored purpose and vision to NASA by giving them goals of establishing a lunar base and attempting to land an American astronaut on Mars
Killborn, I respectfully disagree. If the government cannot even keep track of the illegals who are here now and find it in themselves to kick-and keep- the ones they do find out of the country, what makes you think that the government will do any better at it if this POS bill passed?
I further contend that illegal aliens should never- I repeat, NEVER have the opportunity to gain permanent residency, to say nothing of citizenship. And they should be barred from receiving any benefits of any kind that come at the expense of taxpayers, including health care and education benefits. That includes the anchor babies who are born here. To allow them to do so is tantamount to excusing their lawbreaking and spits in the faces of every person who has waited for years to come to this country LEGALLY.
Furthermore, I am convinced that any man or woman who would use a child as a puppet for personal gain is not worthy of being a parent. So if a baby is born to illegal aliens in this country, we should remove the child from the illegal family, put him or her up for adoption in America, and ship the illegal parents back to their country of origin.
The truth is that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter one damned bit how "comprehensive" the reforms in this bill may be. Its enforcement will STILL depend entirely on the same agencies that fail miserably- and even refuse- to enforce the laws that already exist, and on the same government that has turned its back on its own citizens.
“I respectfully disagree. If the government cannot even keep track of the illegals who are here now and find it in themselves to kick-and keep- the ones they do find out of the country, what makes you think that the government will do any better at it if this POS bill passed?”
I’ll admit, that’s a good point. But being unable to keep track of these people is a far cry from immediately granting them citizenship, which is what the term “amnesty” implies. It’s the equivalent of Congress passing a law featuring harsher punishments for sexual offenders and providing more tools to people to detect, avoid, report them. Despite the effort, these people remain undetected. This is a vast difference from granting a mass repreive for all the criminals.
Because they are undetected, they remain immune from the new laws regulations, punishments, and what not. When an individual (whether the illegal in your situation or the sex offenders in my example) is detected, they will be subject to these measures. This is different from granting them a general pardon where nothing will happen to them even if the illegal or offender runs into law enforcement/government officials.
In short, the illegals , are not immune because of an act of government like in a true amnesty but they are immune because they are undetected for the time being. Regardless of whether this bill is passed or not, detection would mean sanctions (provided they are not in a sanctuary city/lenient state; there is still a measure of federalism in the illegal immigration situation).
“I further contend that illegal aliens should never- I repeat, NEVER have the opportunity to gain permanent residency, to say nothing of citizenship.”
Now we have a difference of opinion. I only have two real concerns about illegals. The first is that they not be crooks, drug-dealers, or terrorists and the second that they get way behind everyone else in the naturalization process.
Regarding residency, unless deportation wouldendanger the illegal or deprive the American citizen child of their parents, illegals should have to return to their homes to fill out the paperwork and stuff whether they want to be naturalized, live and work in America for a while before returning to their home, or work under a guest worker program.
“And they should be barred from receiving any benefits of any kind that come at the expense of taxpayers, including health care and education benefits.”
Well, no Americans should have to take these handouts in the first place, but I digress.
Except for emergency medical care, I agree. By cutting off the illegals from the government support system, they will rely on the free market system to get the services they want/need. Charities, hospitals, schools, pivate pension corporations, the sky is the limit. They could actually teach native born Americans a thing or two about independence.
“That includes the anchor babies who are born here.”
This is a tough one because tens of thousands of people got their citizenship this way and many of them not even from the Southern border. I think this is only a massive problem because of the welfare thing or a possible sleeper cell scenario. The scecond scenario, unless we want to give up more of our freedoms, can’t really be prevented because it would require a lot of intrusive background checking and surveillance. And besides it’s not like native born Americans don’t become terrorists. As I already said, it’s best to ween Americans, whether first of fifteenth generation, of the welfare addition for the betterment of our nation. The sooner the better.
“To allow them to do so is tantamount to excusing their lawbreaking and spits in the faces of every person who has waited for years to come to this country LEGALLY.”
I think if we make them jump through enough hoops and go to the back of the line, it will send a clear message that this type of behavior is not tolerated and that the preferable way is to come here via legal means.
“Furthermore, I am convinced that any man or woman who would use a child as a puppet for personal gain is not worthy of being a parent. So if a baby is born to illegal aliens in this country, we should remove the child from the illegal family, put him or her up for adoption in America, and ship the illegal parents back to their country of origin.”
I can’t disagree strongly enough. While there are unscrupulous people who would do such a thing, there are a sizable number of parents who do so simply because they want to ensure a better future for their child. And I highly doubt most Americans will be supportive of such a draconian plan.
“The truth is that at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter one damned bit how “comprehensive” the reforms in this bill may be. Its enforcement will STILL depend entirely on the same agencies that fail miserably- and even refuse- to enforce the laws that already exist, and on the same government that has turned its back on its own citizens.”
This is the problems with all law enforcement endeavors. There will always be the pedophile that gets 6 days, the murderer who got off on a technicality, or the wrongfully accused man serving time. This will always be the case until the end of time, even if America no longer suffers from the scourge of liberalism. (Of course, it will be to a much lesser degree.) The most we can do is keep on fighting the best we can so that we can have effective yet none intrusive law enforcement and justice for all.
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