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You’ve inadvertently undermined your whole argument.

No. I did not.

I argued that it seems to me Dan Smith is creating an attractive environment for lost people so that they will come into direct contact with the love of God, and that the driving force underlying this work IS, evidently, the love of God made manifest in Smith's own life. In this, I argue that the particular methods and forms he's using are being made subject to the Prime Directive of Jesus to tell the world of the love of God as revealed by his sacrifice. Highlighting the magnitude of that love does not, in any way, debase my position; it reinforces it by confirming the priority of the love of God above all else.

The sacrifice of Calvary was a work of inexpressible love; a love SO beyond human experience that St. John, writing in I John 4 says that -- if you don't know God, and aren't born of God -- whatever you may have ever felt or expressed; it wasn't love.

Look at his language in verse 7:
"...everyone who loves is born of God and knows God."

"Everyone who loves" establishes that his next words are going to be stipulations describing the category of all people who love. He makes two, clear, concise stipulations; that the definition of "everyone who loves" is that they are people who:
A) Have been "born of God", and
B) "know God".

Any person not meeting these two stipulations is, therefore, OUTSIDE the defined group; NOT a member of "everyone who loves". [Try preaching THAT to an unsaved crowd. "You've NEVER -- EVER -- known what love really is."]

I go to this painstaking extent to clarify this point, because this love that we cannot give, or know, apart from being born of God, and knowing God, is first manifest to us in the Cross of Christ, and we, in this modern time, do not afford it the gravity it requires; principally because we make no linguistic differentiation between the "love" of God, and our "love" of pizza.

If I may, John 3:16 might more adequately strike our hearts with the actual truth rendered thus:

For God is so madly, sold-out, and irretrievably heartsick in His love for us, that He gave His only Son...

Since this monumental expression of a love we could never know has released to us the knowledge and experience of nothing less than that previously-unknowable love (the love that can only come from God, because God IS love), my description of the purpose of Jesus in yielding himself to the cross does NOT undermine my position, but reinforces it.

The love of God shed abroad in Christ is SO overwhelming; it comes upon us inexorably, having no regard at all for our sin, as we live this day of grace. It looks beyond every stain and seeks out our hearts. It is not turned aside by our foul mouths, or our addictions, or our lusts, or our crimes. This inextinguishable love, emanating toward -- no INTO -- our very hearts from the Heart of God Himself, our Abba, our Father, cannot, while grace springs hopeful, be suppressed.

Certainly there WILL come that day when God says, "IT IS DONE", and grace will be no more, and the wrath of God will be poured out in full measure.

But TODAY is not THAT DAY.

So, how can the church legitimately manifest judgment to a world toward which God, Himself, is manifesting so great a love that it looks beyond all faults in seeking the hearts of all men? How can we possibly entertain such a betrayal of the message of the Cross?

The cross shouts with that voice like the thundering of many waters, "I, YHVH, the Only God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, have LOVED you with an everlasting love, and My Heart's desire is that you accept the sacrifice I have made so that you and I can have intimate fellowship, now, on Earth, and forevermore, in Heaven."

The message of the church where Dan Smith ministers to his community is, it seems to me, in-sync with that love in getting people to where they can HEAR God's heart-cry of love, so they can respond to it, believe, and be saved.

It doesn't matter how they talk, at that point.
It doesn't matter how they're dressed, at that point.
It doesn't matter what they're addicted to, at that point.
NOTHING matters, at that point, beyond them coming to understand that the ultimate "I LOVE YOU" of the cross of Christ is a Personal message TO them FROM YHVH Himself.

If it takes some thumpin' rap music, a funny skit, and a comedy act to get lost people into position to get that word from God, then I am joyful in the harvest, and commend the work. No less a man than the Apostle Paul said, "I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some." Were he among us today, you might well find him playing a part in a comedic skit at the church where Dan Smith ministers.

It all comes down to this: Are we, the church, in the things we say and do, faithfully manifesting otherwise-unknowable love from God to our lost world? If, at any point, the answer is "No", then it is incumbent upon us to change so that the answer will be "Yes", instead. When the answer is "Yes", the lost will be impacted by that inexorable love, and the changes that need to happen in their lives -- cleaning up their language, altering their dress codes, breaking their addictions, &c. -- will follow naturally as their own hearts respond to the love of God.

So, we ought not be so preoccupied with that stuff on the head end. Doing so almost communicates that we don't think God's love is great enough to change peoples' lives that much, which is NOT AT ALL what our message is supposed to be.

I believe that our righteous response to news like that in this article is to refrain from throwing up knee-jerk objections over nonessential things like forms of worship and communication styles. If hard evidence appears of something truly contrary to the mission of God among the lost, THEN that thing can be brought out and considered. But, in the absence of such evidence, our condemnation -- even our hedging, stained-glass-windowed trepidations and "gee, I dunno" kind of talk -- are premature, petty, and not representative of that great love we profess. As such, we harm our witness and disparage the cross of Christ if we engage in such behavior.

Let us, instead, have love toward this man, Dan Smith, to the extent that we have no evidence that what he is doing is contrary to the love of God; to the extent that he, at this point, appears to be of the House of God. Let us not speak divisively against him or against the work that he is doing, so that no one may point to our conversation as evidence of some paucity in the work of grace. Let not our godly caution of illegitimate works cross over into ungodly condemnation of legitimate works. Let us, instead, say "yea" and "amen", commending Dan Smith, his congregation, and their work to God, lifting them before the Throne of grace, in full faith and confidence that His Divine will shall be, ultimately, made manifest in their lives. So let us seek to strengthen, not weaken, this work, and trust God that whatever may require correction will be revealed to them by the Spirit, interceding for them that they walk in humility, so that correction will be eagerly recieved.

Grace and peace to you. May the Spirit and love of God dwell within you in power.

Pwn3d,
-- HKMk23

" No. I did not."

Yes you did. By appealing to the gravity of the Crucifixion you completely undermine you argument that the church service, which should be a remembrance of that event, should be fun, light and breezy!

Rev. Smith: "Some people don't like church because it's boring, full of hypocrites and often led by greedy dudes who only care about cash flow," Smith writes in a promotional flyer for his church, Momentum Christian Church. "And church is really boring, too. Did I mention that a lot of people hate church because it's boring? I usually do... ...Worshippers say you won't be bored at Momentum."

Yea, that's some LUV! Smearing your fellow Christians - anybody that Rev. Smith finds "boring".

Oh, did I mention that Rev. Smith isn't boring....

"The cross shouts with that voice like the thundering of many waters, "I, YHVH, the only God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, have LOVED you with an everlasting love, and My Heart's desire is that you accept the sacrifice I have made so that you and I can have intimate fellowship, now, on Earth, and forevermore, in Heaven."

It also shouts out "You've got a freaking big problem on your hands - namely, if you don't repent your going to perish".

So why don't we kick up our heals, or grind our hips to some thumpin' rap music - pass the popcorn and the Starbucks while we consider the torture Christ went through to save us from the wrath of God???

"Were he among us today, you might well find him playing a part in a comedic skit at the church where Dan Smith ministers."

I SERIOUSLY doubt it. He would probably be on his face, like Moses, interceding for the children of Israel after their "worship party".

"It all comes down to this: Are we, the church, in the things we say and do, faithfully manifesting otherwise-unknowable love from God to our lost world?"

If you are doing it by throwing them a popcorn party then you are out of line with the teaching and methodology of Jesus and the disciples. We are a generation that has lost ALL SENSE of the holiness of God and of something called "reverence". The disciple and Jesus spent a great deal of time WARNING people of what lay ahead of them. Look at this...

"I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish everyone with tears."

Hmmm... maybe Paul did that between comedy skits...

"Let us not speak divisively against him "

See his quote above for an example of "divisive language".

Di5-Pwn3d

P.S. Come to think of it, the Greeks loved plays... why didn't Paul put on a plays for them???