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Exotic cause of 'Pioneer anomaly' in doubt
NewScientist.com ^ | 22 June 2007 | David Shiga

Posted on 06/26/2007 5:59:25 AM PDT by BGHater

The 'Pioneer anomaly' – the mystifying observation that NASA's two Pioneer spacecraft have drifted far off their expected paths – cannot be explained by tinkering with the law of gravity, a new study concludes.

The study's author suggests an unknown, but conventional, force is instead acting on the spacecraft. But others say even more radical changes to the laws of physics could explain the phenomenon.

Launched in the early 1970s, NASA's Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft are drifting out of the solar system in opposite directions, gradually slowing down as the Sun's gravity pulls back on them.

But they are slowing down slightly more than expected and no one knows why. Some physicists say the law of gravity itself needs revising, so that gravity retains more strength in the outer solar system. But there has been disagreement about whether such modifications would accurately predict the orbits of the outer planets.

Now, Kjell Tangen, a physicist at the firm DNV in Hovik, Norway, says tweaking the law of gravity in a variety of ways cannot explain the anomaly – while also getting the orbits of the outer planets right. After modifying gravity in ways that would match the Pioneer anomaly, he inevitably got wrong answers for the motion of Uranus and Pluto.

Conventional explanation

(Excerpt) Read more at space.newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: gravity; nasa; pioneer; space; stringtheory; themotionofuranus; xplanets
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To: Popocatapetl

It’s a start, but entanglement doesn’t work that way.


21 posted on 06/26/2007 8:04:01 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Treaty)
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To: BGHater

Modification of the gravitational potential field equation will not cure this one.


22 posted on 06/26/2007 8:06:35 AM PDT by RightWhale (It's Brecht's donkey, not mine)
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To: RightWhale

Maybe empty space isn’t all that empty.


23 posted on 06/26/2007 8:13:21 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing small pox to ebola.)
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To: Lurker

Dark matter has gravity but otherwise does not interact with anything. What could it be? It is localized and is near ordinary matter, mixed in with it, but the Bullet Nebula shows that it can be extracted from the vicinity of ordinary matter, so it is something and does not fill empty space.


24 posted on 06/26/2007 8:23:33 AM PDT by RightWhale (It's Brecht's donkey, not mine)
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To: RightWhale
Dark matter has gravity but otherwise does not interact with anything.

Well, which is it? If it has gravity, it must interact.

Couldn't these spacecraft just be running into 'dust' and that's what's slowing them down. Sort of like drag in the air, but at much less magnitude.

I mean for every micro-meteor or particle of dust that strikes the spacecraft, there must be a resulting loss of velocity. Right?

I presume Newtons Laws still apply out there, of course.

L

25 posted on 06/26/2007 8:26:07 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing small pox to ebola.)
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To: Lurker

No, they are not running into dust. They are instrumented and data does not indicate dust particles. Note the presence of the word ‘otherwise’ in the suspect statement.


26 posted on 06/26/2007 8:31:14 AM PDT by RightWhale (It's Brecht's donkey, not mine)
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To: BGHater

It’s Galactus approaching.


27 posted on 06/26/2007 9:35:53 AM PDT by william clark (DH4WH08 - Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: BGHater; CarrotAndStick

” radical changes to the laws of physics”

I waiting for changes to the distributive laws of mathematics. That should be fun.


28 posted on 06/26/2007 10:42:02 AM PDT by gcruse
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To: BGHater

Clearly those spacecraft are not ‘hooked-up’ the way they could be. Time to pit for new rubber and a round of wedge.


29 posted on 06/26/2007 10:45:06 AM PDT by Tallguy (Climate is what you plan for, weather is what you get.)
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To: BGHater

“Myles Standish, who calculates solar system motions...”

...had parents with a sense of humor.


30 posted on 06/26/2007 10:45:52 AM PDT by gcruse
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To: Alter Kaker
What kind of human error could cause drifting spacecraft outside the solar system to slow down? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just not seeing a mechanism.

Maybe their factoring in of the friction offered by space dust was wrong? Maybe the accumulating dust on the spacecraft is slowing it down...

Maybe high velocity microscopic dust is colliding with the craft from ahead? Maybe, just maybe...

31 posted on 06/26/2007 10:53:13 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

I was wondering about an orbit 90º off of the orbits of the other planets, so that it would affect planets on both sides of the ecliptic...


32 posted on 06/26/2007 10:55:27 AM PDT by LachlanMinnesota
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To: CarrotAndStick

Your explanations are totally possible, in fact they may be probable — but they’re not human error.


33 posted on 06/26/2007 11:01:11 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Alter Kaker

Well, those influences have to be factored in, to derive the expected velocity of the craft, and compare it to the actual velocity. Why can’t human error factor in that “coefficient” wrongly?


34 posted on 06/26/2007 11:04:16 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: BGHater
Myles Standish, who calculates solar system motions at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California, says most scientists suspect the asymmetrical radiation of heat from the spacecraft is to blame.

"Speak for yourself, John."

35 posted on 06/26/2007 11:21:14 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (I never consented to live in the Camp of the Saints.)
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To: CarrotAndStick
Seems to me, that for what you describe, human error could not be a factor because that implies (at least to me) fore knowledge (not speculation or educated guesses) that was used incorrectly. The Pioneer's are in, literally, uncharted territory, and therefore no knowledge of the conditions existed from which to err.

And the Pioneer's probably don't have the instrumentation and or power to investigate, so such knowledge will still be lacking until we send out more extra-solar spacecraft to specifically study the phenomena.

36 posted on 06/26/2007 11:29:28 AM PDT by AFreeBird (Will NOT vote for Rudy. <--- notice the period)
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To: AFreeBird
Seems to me, that for what you describe, human error could not be a factor because that implies (at least to me) fore knowledge (not speculation or educated guesses) that was used incorrectly. The Pioneer's are in, literally, uncharted territory, and therefore no knowledge of the conditions existed from which to err.

Well, if that is the case, then the very premise of predicting the theoretical velocity of the craft, to compare with the actual velocity, should be an erroneous proposition, shouldn't it?

37 posted on 06/26/2007 11:41:27 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: gcruse

No offense to the mathematicians out there, ok, well maybe a little bit of offense, but, math is just made up. You make up some numbers and some rules, and you deduce stuff from that. You can prove some of the propositions. Physics isn’t like that at all, it isn’t made up. Physical laws describe nature, and it’s up to us to discover them - you can’t do it just by thinking about it, like you can with math. You can postulate alternative explanations for physically observable processes, but ultimately, these hypotheses either withstand scrutiny, or they do not. With math, you can simply postulate other systems, and see what you get from there.

Here’s an example: There is exactly one line parallel to a given line, that passes through a point not on the given line. Euclidian geometry. You don’t like it? Ok, simply postulate that there are no lines that pass through a point parallel to a given line (spherical geometry) or, if you’d prefer, there are an infinity of distinct lines, all parallel to a given line, that pass through a point not on the given line (hyperbolic geometry).


38 posted on 06/26/2007 7:25:13 PM PDT by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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10 posted on 04/01/2007 1:07:28 AM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1808454/posts?page=10#10


39 posted on 07/01/2007 9:17:11 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 28, 2007.)
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X-Planets
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·

40 posted on 07/01/2007 9:17:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 28, 2007.)
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