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To: Greg F
You obviously don’t understand then why God has sent prophets and apostles to minister to His children. Joseph Smith never claimed to be a savior to the people. He is God’s messenger. One of many. As for temple ordinances, as indeed the Sacrament of Christ, these symbols and ordinances point to Christ- something the people in the time of Christ had substituted. They are not His substitute. But I think you already know that and are just being ornery.
1,146 posted on 06/29/2007 12:02:02 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: DanielLongo
As for temple ordinances, as indeed the Sacrament of Christ, these symbols and ordinances point to Christ- something the people in the time of Christ had substituted. They are not His substitute. But I think you already know that and are just being ornery.

No I don't know that. My impression is you need a secret handshake to get past the veil into the higher heaven. You also need to wear special underwear to become a member of the temple, which is necessary to get into the higher heaven. You also need to tithe to become a member of the temple, which is necessary to get into the higher heaven. Etc. Etc. All these are completely and utterly against salvation through Christ, which is a free gift.

Christians believe that Christ was sinless. He lived a perfect life. He allowed himself to be placed upon the cross and died for our sins. On the third day he rose again, proving that he was the messiah. We believe that to accept the free gift of salvation all that is required is that you accept this gift and believe in Christ and Christ alone for your salvation.

1,154 posted on 06/29/2007 12:12:53 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: DanielLongo
Joseph Smith never claimed to be a savior to the people.

Ok...


 Snip from    JOURNAL   OF   DISCOURSES, vol. 8, #59
 
 
Every intelligent person under the heavens that does not, when informed, acknowledge that Joseph Smith, Jun., is a Prophet of God, is in darkness, and is opposed to us and to Jesus and his kingdom on the earth. What do you suppose I think of them? They cannot conceive their own degradation. If they could, they would turn away from their wickedness. I know them, but they do not know me. We live in an atmosphere they do not approach; they have not ability to see the path we walk in. Would I treat them as badly as they would treat us? No. They would murder us in a moment, if they had the power, unless we would renounce our religion. But they are trifling with their own existence, when they measure arms with the Almighty. All the day long we have extended to our enemies the hand of mercy and charity. We would offer to them life and salvation. What would they offer to us? Death and damnation, if they had the power; but they have not the power, and never will have.
From the day that Joseph brought forth the records of the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the power of God, until the day of his death, they said that he was seeking to bring down the wrath of the Lamanites upon the whites. They have driven us among the Lamanites, whom they were continually trying to keep us from mingling with. Why did they do this? God had decreed that they should, and they could not help it; and they will keep teasing and worrying and contending and fighting with one another, until the prophecy be fulfilled concerning the sons of Jacob, who will rise up and go through among the Gentiles like a lion through the forest. And who can stand before them? No one. Jew and Gentile, hear it; you are bringing upon your heads the very things you are trying to avoid, like the Government of the United States, which is striving with all its might, and calling to its aid the best wisdom of the nation to preserve its existence. Everything they do divides them until they will be split asunder and shivered to pieces. So they would do with this work.
 
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work. He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon. He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood. As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun. Who has made this so? Have I? Have this people? Have the world? No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it. If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph. If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass. Can you pass without his inspection? No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times. In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet. They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent? They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they? No. We paid for lands in Missouri that the wicked now possess. The United States could rise up and say, “You Mormons, come back, and we will defend you in your rights.” But will they do this? No, but they will spend their millions to deprive us of our just rights. They might do a great many good things: they might forsake their meanness, if they had a mind to.
 
 
An official and widely distributed LDS document states: "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done.
When they point the way, there is no other which is safe.
When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy" (Ward teachers message for June, 1945).
 
President Heber C. Kimball said: "But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it.
None of your business whether it is right or wrong" (Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.32).

1,172 posted on 06/29/2007 12:52:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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