Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
(AP) SALT LAKE CITY -- Mitt Romney said Saturday that criticism of his Mormon religion by rival GOP presidential campaigns is happening too frequently.
“Clearly, any derogatory comments about anyone’s faith—those comments are troubling. The fact they keep on coming up is even more troubling,” Romney said during a fundraising trip in the home state of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Mormon church is one of the fastest-growing religions and claims about 12.5 million members worldwide. But many evangelical Christians in crucial primary states such as Iowa and South Carolina consider the faith a cult.
Romney’s remarks follow an apology from GOP rival John McCain’s campaign for comments about the Mormon church allegedly made this year by a volunteer.
Also recently, Republican presidential hopeful, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, issued a similar apology for a campaign worker’s e-mail to Iowa Republican leaders that was an apparent attempt to draw unfavorable scrutiny of Romney’s religion. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani apologized after the New York Sun noted that a campaign aide had forwarded to a blogger a story about unofficial Mormon lore. Legend has it that a Mormon would save the Constitution, the story said. The campaign aide passed the story along with a note: “Thought you’d find this interesting.”
Romney said in a large presidential race there always will be some volunteers or workers who cannot be controlled. But he said the difference between derogatory comments that originated from the McCain campaign and others is that the Arizona senator has not personally apologized to him.
“In the case of Senator Brownback and Mayor Giuliani ... they called immediately. They each spoke with me personally. I don’t have any issue with that at all,” Romney said.
He said McCain “can do whatever he feels is the right thing. There’s no need for me to suggest how people respond to things that go on in the campaign.”
Tucker Bounds, a McCain campaign spokesman, said the McCain campaign has already apologized.
“It’s a very sincere apology. There is absolutely no place for those type of comments in our campaign,” he said.
Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, said he had not spoken with McCain since the last presidential debate, on June 5.
Romney used a fundraiser hosted by Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller to criticize the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law. It banned unregulated, unlimited contributions from corporations, unions and wealthy individuals to national political parties and federal candidates.
“The bill ought to be repealed,” he said. “It’s been the wrong course for American campaigns.”
Romney said he favors unlimited donations as long as they are immediately disclosed on the Internet.
Romney was attending fundraisers in Salt Lake City and in Logan on Saturday.
Some of CC’s points are good; some are bolstered by testimony of dubious sources; and some are based on assumptions and misconceptions.
Frankly, I’m too tired of the topic right now to put any energy into it. Hit me up some other time.
Ironically, the "adulterous" generation refers to that awful and misguided thing known and "good works" Doesn't the flip in sides seem a litttle odd to you? ;-)
Excellent verses, sevenbak; and so appropriate. I’ll have to jot those down.
Well, like every anti-Mormon accusation I’ve seen so far, the evidences against the LDS Church are specious at best. I see no reason for the DNA discussion to be an exception.
John 5:28-29:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall acome forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
The work actually was God's Spirit at work; but with Mormonism, the father of lies is seeking to supplant the work of the Holy Spirit with the lies and fabrications of Joseph Smith, the false prophet you have chosen to defend, follow, and adore. Refer to post #701 ... your religion is founded on an accusation that all of Christianity is apostasy since the death of the last Apostle and God's Spirit could not maintain Christian Salvation without using a Smith for restoration. That's heresy from a demonic source.
That I and others are concerned for your immortal soul and that of Mormon friends who have succumb to this demonic inspired cult is not something you ought to ridicule. You apologists seek to proselytize seriously, so you ought to recognize the serious nature of this discussion.
Question our motives, doubt our sincerity, even chide us for our persistence, but take care that you are not left the dust from someone's feet as the witness to your insistence in following what demons can manipulate to appear as righteous. Your burning in the bosom may become eternal without relief, if you succeed in leading weak Christians astray.
You try to claim your religion's name is what you're about, but you are pushing your religion not Jesus Christ and Salvation only in Him. Your religion is about Joe Smith and your worship system, not Jesus Christ, but that's to be expected from a people who adore a man who claimed to be superior to God's Holy Spirit in maintaining a religion (not Salvation, maintaining a religious system!).
I do believe, MHG, that your rhetoric is little by little becoming more shrill as time goes on.
Ah, perhaps it is indicative of growing unreasonable replies from Mormonism apologists responding to posters who cite Mormonism sources which expose the heresies and lies of your chosen ‘prophet’ for adoration. I am growing weary of the Mormonism campaign at FR to defer from the truth in favor of covering the lies. But I still believe you are worth the prayer and effort. You’re not to be rid of me yet.
A little bit happy. I thought this thread would get about 100-200 replies, but not like this.
“So you like to streeeeeeench the truth too!”
No, I absolutely do not like to stretch the truth. What I do like to do (something I learned as an engineer), is to take a premise and bang it hard - take a result to the extreme and see if it cracks. This is similar to destructive materials testing in engineering, where you induce failure modes in structures through vibrational forcing functions, or through stress testing to failure.
Applied to Mormonism, this means I ask questions like “if a Mormon can become God, why can’t I?” and “If I were a God, what possible bizarre results would ensue”. As I’ve shown, these thought experiments lead to ridiculous conundrums (for example: I killed myself this morning to save humanity from myself, which made me righteous enough to become a God and resurrect myself here on Free Republic).
When you push things hard like that, false ideas just become laughable. I know a lot of people feel hurt when confronted with the truths that result from this process. Of course, the reason I know some have had their feelings hurt is because the seer stone I hold in my hat allow me to see into peoples minds. But I’d hardly be doing anyone a favor by offering up marshmallow logic that feels good but rots the neurons, so flame away.
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King James Version
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The NET Bible
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New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update
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| 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. | 7 Is it not true that if you do what is right, you will be fine? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it.” | 7 “If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” |
“Fast Coyote didn’t streeeeetch the truth. It IS the truth.”
The real stretch comes from those who have to disconnect themselves from reality to defend the adulterous bank fraud/stone seer/land speculator - Joseph Smith.
resty,
Again, for the third time on a thread - learn something
about textual criticism so that you can speak on this
point in a more well informed way. In short. You are
wrong and you don’t know why.
ampu
~”I am growing weary of the Mormonism campaign at FR to defer from the truth in favor of covering the lies.”~
You know, it’s interesting that you say that. One can, of course, find exceptions; but by and large the theme has been as follows:
-Article (religious or not) is posted; perhaps it obliquely mentions Mormons, perhaps it’s dedicated to the topic.
-Somebody says something untrue about Mormons (the most popular being along the lines of, “They’re a non-Christian cult!”)
-A Mormon responds (in the past, the response has been quite harsh. You must admit, we’re learning, and generally getting better as time goes on and we resolve to repent and be more Christlike)
-An anti-Mormon dredges up old arguments, lies, misconceptions, and falsehoods about Mormonism (and they are indeed old; in the last month or so, I have seen one new argument).
-The war rages. Members of both sides seem to periodically forget their Christianity.
Now, I haven’t, of course, read everything ever posted on FR; but I have yet to see anywhere where a Mormon has logged on and, say, bashed Methodists out of the blue as a heathen cult. It doesn’t generally happen. You see, MHG, we are typically pretty secure in our faith. We don’t need to go about and destroy others’ in order to build our own up. As a rule, we don’t do this. We do think that your faith is not correct; but if you have found peace in it, then God bless you. We will move along and share with somebody who wants to learn more of the mysteries of God - for you have no idea how deep the doctrine of Christ goes. You and I are but children in the Gospel; but I can see possibilities to understand eternal truths that you cannot imagine exist - and never will, if you are not willing.
What we do is defend what we believe, and work to correct the base lies told about us. Speaking for myself, I also get the side-benefit of learning many new things. Such as a greater understanding of the intolerance of a religious bigot, for example. Or just how obsessive some people can become.
Frankly, just as liberals loath conservatives largely because conservatives’ moral clarity clashes with liberals’ moral relativism, many anti-Mormons, I theorize, rail against Mormons because Mormons’ staunch support of and unwavering fidelity to their own beliefs makes anti-Mormons feel as if they are somehow inferior; and they rail all the harder in a vain attempt to build themselves back up.
The irony about all this is that Mormonism would come up far less frequently if those whose evident joy in life is to tear it down just refrained from attacking us until we attacked them. You say that you are weary of the “Mormon campaign.” I find that risible. There is no such campaign. Our arguments are entirely reactive in nature. It’s far closer to the truth to say that there is an anti-Mormon campaign, and that Romney’s presidential run has given it a great opportunity to resurge, because more people are paying attention. Certainly, there are more anti-Mormon websites out there run by Orthodox Christians, for example, than anti-Orthodox Christian websites run by Mormons. I say to such people, Do your worst. My faith has weathered far more dire straits than your pathetic flailings. Such people are as flies buzzing about the rump; the steed gallops onward regardless. God has told me that what I believe is true, and that is that. You will not, my friend, ever be able to overcome that testimony, for, intelligent and genuinely concerned as you may be, you cannot out-reason God in matters of the soul.
~”You’re not to be rid of me yet.”~
I wouldn’t have it any other way. Just realize that everything you and those who agree with you are doing is simply making us stronger, more knowledgeable, and more able to flatly refute you. Whether you choose to see it or not, we are learning how to crush you ideologically. While our detractors become more shrill, we become more resolute and competent in defense.
Keep it coming! God’s followers have always been persecuted. What I am called on to endure is nothing compared to that which my forebears have borne; and Christ Himself has borne it all. If these small annoyances are what it takes to grow my faith, then I welcome them with levity in my heart!
(Note: I have pinged some of my fellow LDS Freepers, not to gang up on you; but rather as a move to provide some organization and encouragement to the evidently shadowy “Mormon Campaign.” Friends, let us, as we continue to strive for what is good and true, do so with boldness; but also always do so in humility and charity and respect - particularly for those who denigrate what we hold dear. We are in the right; in the end, God will fight our battles; in the meantime, let us always be worthy representatives of Him; and let us always encourage one another to work to meet this high standard.)
You must have missed the MOATs (Mothers-of-All-Threads) we engaged in a few months ago. I think we came close to 3,000 on a couple.
We are a very dedicated group of hard-heads.
“However, to be frank, my rule is, if you don’t vote, you can’t criticize. :)”
Okay, I will vote for Hillary. Can I criticize now?
And since when has the conscientious withdrawal of a vote been a reason to stop free speech???
Oh wait, they used to do that kind of thing in the Soviet Union.
Hold the phone! Incorrect translations changing the meaning of the Bible? Impossible! Ridiculous! Unfathomable! These other translations are the work of the Devil, I tell you!
My mom says she voted for Bill Cosby in ‘88.
;>)
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